Vegas Resort Fees

American Casino Guide Resort Fee Articles

2022-01-03T09:25:00.002-05:00

The American Casino Guide is a great buy of information and coupons.
I was honored to publish a resort fee article in the 2011 edition on page 22 and expect a revised article to come out in the 2012 edition.

NOTE THAT BECAUSE BLOGS ARE ARRANGED BY DATE, TO KEEP SOME POSTS AT THE TOP OF MY BLOG, I'VE CREATED ARTIFICIAL FUTURE DATES. IGNORE THEM. All 2011 dates reflect the actual date of the post. Scroll down to those.

LISTs: FEES AND NO FEES

2022-01-02T16:03:00.008-05:00

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NOTE THAT BECAUSE BLOGS ARE ARRANGED BY DATE, TO KEEP SOME POSTS AT THE TOP OF MY BLOG, I'VE CREATED ARTIFICIAL FUTURE DATES. IGNORE THEM. All 2011 dates reflect the actual date of the post.

THIS POST OF RESORT FEE LISTS LAST EDITED October, 2011

SCROLLING DOWN A FEW POSTS THE DATES OF POSTING ARE REAL.

BELOW ARE LISTED SITES THAT ATTEMPT TO COLLECT AND LIST RESORT FEES AND AMENITIES

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1.This list has been continuously updated. It includes a mention of the amount after taxes.
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=441981
I use it as my first reference and I generally do not need another.

2. Interesting color coded chart on this site gives a quick way to look at amenities. I think the tax information needs to be added. If the resort fee is taxed, the math is different. Always check any information with a call to a casino reservations clerk to insure accuracy.
http://lasvegasresortfees.com/?loc=interstitialskip

3. Some casinos will not be listed in the site below because they can't be booked here. Like Gold Spike. This site lacks notice of when there is taxation of the fee itself. Most resort fees do incur taxes. So in general, add $1.20 per $10 resort fee. A fee quoted as $10 is really $11.20. One quoted as $20 is really $22.40. Or use one of the other lists that tries to include that information.
http://www.vegas.com/incl/resortfees.html
4. I eliminated the Cheapo site. I don't think since the change of ownership that it is being updated.

5. Gold Spike and the Rumor Suites are missing here, and the Orleans does not say $6. I am beginning to judge the accuracy of sites by whether they caught the months old change in the Orleans resort fee and updated that. I can't figure why Gold Spike is left off. A nice touch here is that the ones that add tax are noted so you can add in 12% (or 13% for Stratosphere if they decide to charge tax and Gold Spike)
http://www.vegashotelspecial.com/index.php/2009/10/07/hidden-fees-at-las-vegas-hotels-dont-be-a-victim/
If you click on the hotels specials being presented by this board, there is no mystery about the resort fee, and you don't have to poke back to the list and back to the specials. As well as the fee being listed, it is stated in a prominent spot on each special so you can easily do the mathematics. Whoever designed that feature really decided to be part of the solution and not pass on an inaccurate hotel rate by ignoring resort fees. Updating is a tough job. Always check with the hotel and then if you have the energy, tell the board moderator of errors. I just use list #1. I can't be telling everyone the the Orleans went up a buck.

6. In Laughlin so far the only resort fee I know about is collected by Aquarius. This is too bad. However, the VP there is some of the best left in Laughlin. That should be listed as an amenity.

Introduction

2018-12-30T17:29:00.000-05:00

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$$$$$$$$ RESORT FEES AND WHAT THEY MEAN $$$$$$$$
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A resort fee is a mandatory fee added to each night's bill to inflate your booked hotel rate. It gives you certain amenities. Few of them are important. One common amenity is free parking which is everywhere in Vegas except downtown, and ironically downtown has only one resort fee at the Goldspike where there is little parking and anything resort like. Many other amenities are equally bogus. like free water. This is particularly unimportant in Vegas since bottled water is always free when gambling.

Free internet, however, is one amenity to consider. Fitness room access is another.
However, most people would like to consider these amenities as paid for when requested.

Resort Fees are "hidden fees" and the intent is to be able to advertise one fee at one point in the booking process, and charge another later or to confuse cost comparisons. It is a trick, especially for newbies or the uninformed traveler. Resort fees are often posted only in fine print places.

It works too for the casino. It skews all the tools consumers use to find the deals and often skews reported hotel prices in news reports and other publications as the authors ignore them when reporting rates and drawing conclusions. Some of the most respected sources of room rate information are being comprised by ignoring Resort Fees when reporting on hotel rates.

Here are the issues as I see them:

The resort fee insults us, tries to trick us, and changes often, usually by going up.

By complaining some have had some success in getting the fees dropped, but as it becomes more and more common practice, the complaining is of less value for individuals, although mass complaining would still get the attention of the casinos as was proven when M dropped their huge resort fee due to customer expressed displeasure. Certainly, if no complaints are lodged and resort fees are just accepted as "inevitable" nothing will change.

Purists are boycotting casinos that charge fees; I am just putting the price into my hotel searches and complaining. I admire purists and encourage them to boycott and rebook. They fight the good fight for me. However, I generally book rooms that have no resort fee because they are just cheaper.

Some casinos tax the resort fee as well, adding to the cost and making comparison shopping even more a comedy of errors.

Discount brokers may not reveal this practice of resort fees, so it may come as a surprise at check in or check out. For example using the Kayak search engine used to result in a fine list of casinos arranged by price, but they now quote the room price and also underneath give a total figure that says it represents the charge with taxes and fees, but resort fees are not included in the mathematics.(see complaint to kayak below) Be very careful when booking Kayak until they change this policy.
In the past I generally have use the discounters and arranged the casinos by price, low to high, in a fine, clear list.
That is now impossible.
One casino will look like a better deal than another, but it will actually be quite a bit more expensive because resort fees do not show up in the computer ranking of price low to high.
This may explain some of the reason casinos like the hidden fee.
They look better in the discounters price lists than they really are.
At Priceline this is a particular problem. The fine print merely says that the casinos may charge extra fees and taxes. You won't know what property you are booking until after you book. So the fees are a total surprise and the amount that you indicate you are willing to pay is a joke.

Another reason may well be that, as strange as it may seem, the casino is in competition with the discounters. I don't fully understand the details of their arrangements, but it is clear that the hotel competes with those discount sites.
One strategy of the hotel has been to offer to match the prices of the discounters. So, if you find a room on Expedia for less than what is advertised at the Orleans, you can call the Orleans, give them the site, and they will match the price. This keeps the customer buying from the hotel rather than the discounter, but it must be frustrating when the discounter has overbought and decides to dump their rooms in some huge sale.

If you would like to try to take advantage of this rate matching, here is a site that might be helpful. It has not been updated in a while, but it is still useful.
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7835&highlight=price+guarantee
There are many advantages to booking directly with a hotel:

If you do play a good bit, by booking directly you might get some of your booking, food, or beverage, or Resort Fee removed at checkout.
Booking with discounters usually puts you in second class status for comps, and in some cases the rooms the discounters own are not quite as nice as the rooms you might get directly.
Usually when booking directly you can cancel with no penalty. Discounters often have a fee. Travelworm for example charges the first night and a fifty dollar fee.
Even with no cancellation fee, a discounter will often take your full booking charge up front and can take one or two months to finally return your money. Hotels generally just take on night's fee and credit it back upon cancellation as quickly as they charged it upon booking.(note" Ben Jaming on Vegas Message Board reports mid December 09 that Expedia has stopped charging cancellation fees and is returning money promptly.)
Alterations in booking, like booking five days with a hotel and then changing to four is easy with no rate change or fee. The discounter may require that you drop the entire five night booking and rebook four nights, often at a higher rate.
Your booking paperwork is not going through a middle man, so there is less chance of snafu. If the discounter does not do a good job, the hotel will not know you are coming. With a printed receipt or confirmation number, you usually can get a room, but you might have to wait longer at check in.
You are less likely to be surprised by resort fees. The hotel will reveal them if asked.

Now in that competition between discounter and casino hotel The Resort Fee insures the hotel a guarantee of a certain amount of money regardless of who sold you the room.
In a sense the discount broker who buys blocks of rooms from a hotel that has a Resort Fee cannot actually buy the entire room. A certain amount of its value remains as income for the hotel regardless of hotel rate in the form of the Resort Fee.
This may also make the discounter's risk of buying up large blocks of rooms and reselling them less than were the resort fee included in their original purchase price. Perhaps it is an advantage for them as well, with less lost if they have to dump poorly selling rooms at low prices.
All of this, however, is bad news for the consumer and particularly bad news for the most frugal of Vegas travelers. In August or December the room rates may plummet to just a few dollars, but the Resort Fee stays steady. That portion of the price of the room will not fluctuate as the demand for rooms fluctuates. It is a hotel guarantee of profit.

This particulary hurts my personal trip planning. I generally set aside August and December for Vegas trips, knowing that the room rates will be some of the lowest for the year. Resort Fees will make it more difficult for me to find deals.

One other casino advantage is that the resort fee, along with food and beverage now becomes another carrot to encourage consumers to gamble more in order to have that fee taken off. This is also a way to separate out folks who just come for the cheap rates and don't gamble from those who will lose enough to keep casino profits high.

I am waiting for the hotel which decides to just give away rooms for free and doubles the Resort Fee.

I also guess that the casinos have finally figured out that they can't be the only hotels in America to not offer free wi-fi. It is now a common amenity in hotels around the country, and I suspect that will continue to be the case. Casinos don't like it because folks can use this free connection to entertain themselves when their losses come fast, rather than heading to the ATM. Generally, for the same reason, Vegas hotels have offered the absolutely worst television that could be offered (although Plaza...yes, I said Plaza...has Turner Classic Movies).
Casinos don't want you to have any other place to entertain yourself. Try to find a place to sit quietly and read a book in a casino while your partner fills the one armed bandits.
Hard goal unless you go to the lobby.
Sit on the floor and a security guard will politely inform you that it is not allowed.

Finally, some folks will argue that these fees are no big deal. The arguments will take these three forms:
1. "Who cares about a little $8 resort fee. It's only money."
2. "Don't worry, the casino will take care of you if you just ask them at the desk and get a full statement of charges."
3. "You can get easily get rid of these charges if you gamble more."

These casino apologists are just begging the question. You know better.

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I have tried to organize the issues around Resort Fees in the following blog posts so that they are easy to skim and easy to use for links to just one aspect of the problem. Hope it helps to have gathered and posted this information.
Check links in the Links worth a click section on the right for other interesting gambling discussions.
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Permission to copy parts of this blog

2017-12-30T06:48:00.003-05:00

Just drop me a note and ask. I am easy. I will ask you to just add a link to the source for most material.

COULD YOU HELP GATHER THIS INFORMATION?

2017-12-29T06:30:00.001-05:00

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If you are reading this board, you are most likely going to be in a casino soon. Could you take the time to ask these resort fee questions and relay the information gathered for inclusion here?

Am I being charged a resort fee with this booking? How much?

Do you anticipate a date when this casino will start or stop charging a resort fee?
Are players with comped rooms through a host charged the resort fee? Can they have the fee waived?
Are players who responded to free room postcard offers charged the fee? Can they have the fee waived?
Will how much I play affect my resort fee charge?
If I booked before you started charging resort fees, or raised the amount, will I pay what I knew at the time of booking or what I knew at the time of check in?

I will find it pretty hard to update this blog, so any information that you can send my way, would be helpful. If there is something that seems confused about the way this issue is handled, let me know about that too.
Have you dealt with a discount broker. How did that go relative to resort fee charges? Did you think the charges were prominently displayed or hidden in fine print? If you talked to a broker, did the person seem to know and be willing to share a resort fee practice with you?

If you write a letter to a discounter, casino, coupon provider, or post something on a discussion board, if you can also send that to me, it would be helpful to gather all the facts.

IMPORTANT: If you do wish to share information with me, please add a note of clear permission to quote you and to use what you have written here on this blog and in any other places where I might write about resort fees as well as permission for others to copy your writing and paste it on their boards or in discussion board comments. If you would like me to edit your writing for grammar and spelling include that in your permission. Tell me if you want a name attached to the writing. Please no spam. I am not interested in renting parts of this site to folks wanting to advertise a product or service.

Answering, "What is all the fuss"

2011-10-14T07:01:00.002-04:00

Well, here is some of where my fuss comes from:

One of the annoying bits that comes with the resort fees is that they destroy two good booking tools. First, there is that booking tool that allows you to set a price at a discounter and then get offered a deal based on what you say you would like to pay. Their search for the deal does not include resort fees. So it is now a useless tool.

Second, if you search any discounter for a low to high price ranking of offers, resort fees is not figured into the software, so the entire value of such a ranking is useless.

It is even worse when media reports and ranks hotel charges or trends in some article that ignores resort fees so that the entire article is bogus. This happened for quite a while in LVA newsletters, even though they are supposed to be a great resource for the gambler. How would the average reader know?

Finally, it is fine to say, "Oh, look, you just have to be as smart and savy as I am, and you won't be tricked by the fine print." But why should we applaud the tricksters just because we are smart enough not to get duped, when our inexperienced and unsavy fellow travelers get tricked.

That is the purpose of these fees, to sort us out and trick some of us who are vulnerable.

Should we not worry about our sidewalks if they are filled with holes and uneven pavement because we know to walk around the difficulties so we don't trip?

If that is our attitude, why have a board like this at all? Why not just let everyone find out everything for themselves, the tricks and the strategies and everything. Shouldn't we expect everyone to just know what we know?

I'm not a purist. I pay resort fees and figure them in my final totals just as you do. I like them better when they are right in the booking (like the Gold Spike) and not hidden in the fine print and added on as I check out. But I know there are newbies who don't have a clue and that this whole system is set up to trick them.

And I'm annoyed that there has to be a list on this board and we all have to check it everytime we plan out trips to see just where the resort fee happens to have risen to today.

Just this week on Facebook I went into a Riviera conversation where they were advertising $23 a night and a woman was confused just because the tax made her quoted price higher than that $23.

I asked about the resort fee because it was not being discussed at all.

Of course it was not included in the $23 price that was being celebrated on the bogus informative Facebook page.

"So, "I said," $30 is the new $23"

And then they came out with the full amount of the rooms on sale.

They were baiting with the $23.

They would have preferred to switch the offer at checkout.

I made them switch before booking.

And when I taught propaganda techniques, half truth was one of them, and not considered a thing to celebrate.

Finally, take a look at the ridiculous way hotels.com and expedia handle Gold Spike bookings. They take the resort fee upfront, refuse to admit it, call it a service charge, state in the fine print that the Gold Spike will take it on check out, ignore that the Gold Spike won't take it, and even a half dozen emails and a few phone calls can't get them to make that clear to me or anyone.

And I know a very savy board posting traveler who has offered tons of inside information about Vegas, but who got confused by not getting charged at check out and thought he had beat the resort fee because he had not payed attention to paying it when he first booked.

Whether it is the casinos selling rooms or the banks selling mortgages, transparency in the marketplace is honest, fair, consumer friendly and saves a lot of hassle.

This list is just a fix of a diseased marketing system, like chemo for cancer.

COMPARISON WITH AIRLINE FEES

Let me just comment on the analogy to baggage fees on airlines that is often made when resort fees are discussed because both have the same annoyance factor.

They are not the same.

There may be some similarity in the desire to make cost comparison a mathematical puzzle and a challenge to some travelers.

But there are huge differences.

First, the traveler can choose to pay the baggage fee or not. So those travelers who get the service of transporting lots of weight, pay for that added expense of transporting that weight.

Second, the resort fee offers for the most part useless amenities that are just there so they can't be sued for misquoting rates, or there again to trick the newbies who may not know that the pool and parking are normal free amenities everywhere. In a few cases wifi, fitness rooms, or free water has some value, but use of the pool and free parking is just a sham.

Were the fees like those of the airline, those folks who did not use the amenities, would not pay the fees.

Folks who check no bags, pay no fees; folks who don't use wifi, fitness, etc. still have to pay.

Imagine getting to your destination and the airline stops you and says,

"We are adding a baggage fee to your flight, sir, to better serve you."

"Well, I did not check any bags," you answer.

"Just the same, sir, if you check the fine print on your boarding pass, you will see that at the end of your flight, we add on a baggage fee. The service was offered and whether you used it or not, the fee is required."

That would be more like a resort fee.

Also the airline charges the fee to encourage people to pack less because less weight saves money in fuel cost. A baggage fee is a real fee for a real service and an attempt to charge folks just for what they use. A resort fee is at best a way to make some customers pay for services only a few will use or perhaps a way to get the low bankrolled to pay for the amenities of the high rollers as the fees are often waived on comped rooms.

Resort fee quote

2011-09-08T07:45:00.000-04:00

"I'm a peaceful man. But I'd like to see the bean counter who came up with "Resort Fees" be dragged out into the street, poisoned, stabbed, shot, hanged, stretched, disemboweled, drawn and quartered,and finally decapitated. "
quote of the month from TheShah, another frugal Vegas traveler.

The full thread tells his story of early check-in.

full thread is here

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69336

MGM and resort fees

2011-08-04T19:15:00.000-04:00

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68521

Signature can be rented directly from owners and then no fee is charged.

http://mgmsignaturerentals.com/

Here is the greatest protest

2011-07-27T01:12:00.004-04:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxHjRI0_K78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix3qw8l8-3g&feature=related

And what if life had resort fees?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEyo2S9Mano&NR=1

Do resort fees ever have benefits?

2011-03-06T06:05:00.000-05:00

Here is a good discussion of that question:
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=484515#post484515

Interesting to me is that in some places when people paid a fee for ala carte fitness, the spa was included in the fee. The resort fee generally only includes the fitness center so they are not the same value.

Station Casinos not as easy as once reported

2011-03-05T04:57:00.000-05:00

So, it seems we now need to have a printout of our comped room details in order to be certain the resort fee is waived and we need to draw that to the attention of the clerks at check in so we are not caught in a line, hung over, and late for the plane when the issue comes up. Some great discussion of this can be found here:

http://lvadvice.com/forum/index.php?topic=705.msg9020#new

New fees to be aware of

2011-02-22T11:07:00.002-05:00

At least these are optional

http://www.lvrj.com/business/mgm-resorts-international-adds-optional-fees-to-room-rates-116630388.html

NYNY update

2011-01-31T05:49:00.000-05:00

One fellow board member reports that NYNY did drop the resort fee when asked. However, he attributes it not to his argument that he did not use the amenities, but to the fact that he gave them good play over the time of his visit.
It is always worthwhile to ask about dropping resort fees. Now it is like any other food or hotel bill, a carrot to encourage more play, a comp for the high stakes gambler.

Blogger makes fun of one resort fee

2011-01-20T20:32:00.000-05:00

http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=3841

You know, when something takes this much humorous heat, you would think that it would be something casinos might want to avoid.

Costmopolitan

2011-01-08T14:13:00.003-05:00

Not only can Cosmopolitan be added to the list of casinos that DOES NOT charge resort fees, but this article suggests the trend has run its course and will start to melt away.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/01/aiming-avoid-irritating-guests-cosmo-wont-charge-r/"]http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/01/aiming-avoid-irritating-guests-cosmo-wont-charge-r/

Mirage raises resort fee

2010-12-13T21:14:00.001-05:00

As of January 3, the fee will be $22.40 ( with taxes).

An interesting discussion of this change can be found here:

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60881

Monte Carlo

2010-12-13T05:39:00.000-05:00

Reported that at the Monte Carlo the resort fee was comped on a booked room on the way out after play.

The fee might be collected upfront but who could know?

2010-12-05T06:47:00.005-05:00

Some folks are reporting not being charged a resort fee at the counter and thinking they got away without paying it because they did not notice how high the tax and fee charge was at the broker.
Others, like me, actually skipped using hotel.com last time I planned a trip because I thought they had a hidden booking fee.
While it is nice to have the cost "upfront," who would know that charge was taxes and the resort fee?
I just took a look on hotels.com to book the Gold Spike. It is confusing. Only the mathematics reveals that the resort fee is collected by the broker at the time of booking.
Directly under the mathematics is:

The following mandatory hotel-imposed fees are charged and collected by the hotel either at check-in or check-out.
Resort fee: US$ 7.95 per room, per day
Hotel resort fee inclusions:
Use of pool
Use of fitness center or health club
Internet access
Self parking
The above list may not be comprehensive. Mandatory hotel-imposed fees may not include tax and are subject to change.
The following fees and deposits are charged by the property at time of service, check-in, or check-out.
Deposit: US$ 100 per stay

Then if we hit book, we again get it:
The following mandatory hotel-imposed fees are charged and collected by the hotel either at check-in or check-out.
Resort fee: US$ 7.95 per room, per day

Hotel resort fee inclusions:
Internet access in guestroom
Use of pool

UPDATE: I am talking with Hotels.com and they get the contradiction. They will look into the details of it. According to them there is no way they can collect a resort fee upfront or pass it on to the Gold Spike. Keep reading and I'll post as I know something more definitive.
Use of fitness center or health club
Self parking

Expedia is even more ridiculous. If that is the resort fee buried in the "tax recovery" fee area, then they are cutting their throat as well. For a $39 room that tax and fee charge comes up at $12 a night. And yet the popup resort fee box says that the resort fee will be collected by the hotel at check-in or check-out.
Amazing!

It is commendable that hotels.com wants the information clearly included on the booking form, but why cut their own throat by not including it in the price that is used to rank hotels from low to high? And why not at least put the word "resort" in the fee category?

It is simply amazing to me how confusing this whole practice has made the simple act of booking a room.

Oh, Bellagio joins the resort fee hotels in January.

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Added thoughts after a poster talked about booking directly

If the hotel is up front on the phone, then there is less confusion. Another reason perhaps to book directly with the hotel.

Did you get the room charges comped on your play as well?

Can you share with us the level of your level of play that prompted this resort fee comp?

This reads like you did not have a host. Is that right?

One of the things that the resort fee strategy can be for casinos is a new carrot on the stick to encourage play, so it is helpful for folks to get a feel for how much play generates resort fees waived.

I am very curious as to where it fits in the comped check out list of possible freebies. Is it easier to waive than food? Do you have to ask? Who do you ask?

Clearly that is a direction that the conversation needs to take as more places charge the fee and more people will just be forced to pay it if they are going to stay where they want.

Quite a few people see the value of the resort fee in the internet amenity. And it is a great value if it is comped.

If you need it in your room every day, that can be a wash.

However, as we do the math, it is good to decide how much internet we need. I went with my wife to Harrah's last time and the internet charge for 24 hours was, as I remember, about $12. This compares well with the Monte Carlo resort fee, but at Harrah's the internet fee could be activated for any 24 hours on demand from the room.

My wife thought she wanted to have it, but as it turned out, she never activated it. We were too busy and her new phone let her check email with wifi. So some folks with computer may find the resort fee still adds to the actual bill by giving them a mandatory amenity that they don-t need every day instead of the choice to pay or not which does not need to be made at check in, but can be made right in the room when wifi is really determined to be needed.

Also, more and more fee places are popping up to comfortably use a computer over coffee. Orleans has the Seattle coffee and Thebeat coffee house and record store downtown has a very relaxed area and free wifi just steps from the El Cortez, reducing in my mind the value of the Gold
Spike free wifi because I can get breakfast and wifi for the price of the resort fee.

I tend to write up my emails and Vegas trip reports every night in my room, but I can do that on the word processor and just cut and paste when I get free access over breakfast every few days.

My buddy Bill who handicaps horses daily needs access every day in the room, so that Monte Carlo deal would be a value for him but not for me.

Of course, both Bill and I bipassed the entire process of balancing resort fee with amenity value and booked at the Super 8 where we had the free internet, 24 hour pool access, a laundromat where the wifi worked, a free shuttle to and from the airport, coffee maker, decent HBO and TCM on the tele and a short walk to the main desk with free flavored coffees in the lobby to take along, as well as free bingo next door at Ellis Island and great frugal food and microbrews available there as well. The rooms are not much beyond clean and cozy, but all those amenities all come with no resort fee. None can be comped, but then we don't get encouraged to play over are frugal limits and we are not restricted to play where we stay.

What is reported in this thread, Auggie, is a bit different than your experience because it is not a confusion when booking directly with the hotel, but when booking at some of the discounters. Hotels.com is charging a fifty percent tax recovery and fee at the time of booking and still indicating in the language of the agreement that we will pay the resort fee at the hotel as we check in or out. Guests report that they are not being charged it at the Gold Spike after prepaying it to the discounter, but that is not what folks agree to when they book. It is not a question of paying the fee, but of who we pay it to and when as well as whether some folks may be double billed (which was a big concern to Hotels.com after I called them).

Thanks for posting your experience and any details you would be willing to share, would help us. For folks needing an upscale Vegas experience (and not the small Super 8,) booking is not going to get simpler to understand any time soon, so the more information we have, the better prepared we are to get good value for our money. At the frugal end of the mathematics it is difficult to get value out of the resort fee. My last seventeen night stay in Vegas had me paying twenty two dollars on average a night. If I were paying resort fees on top of that, it would double my cost and over seventeen nights that adds up. A twenty here, a twenty there and pretty soon after seventeen twenties we are talking about real money.

By the way, once I had hotel.com attention I pointed out to hotels.com that the ranking of low to high prices was an absolutely useless part of their website while resort fees were not computed in the ranked nightly costs. I think folks who buy through discounters ought to complain more to them about the loss of this comparison shopping tool, so they do the work of programing into the reported nightly charge the real cost of the room. Some of the sites that make comparison quotes on products to buy online have begun to do that in order to accurately compare a supplier who charges no shipping with one who disingenuously deflates the price and inflates the shipping charges so that a comparison is accurate. Discount brokers need to do the same as well as newspaper reporters who report trends in room charges in their articles and rank examples incorrectly by ignoring the mathematics.

Bellagio to Charge a resort Fee

2010-11-18T05:53:00.002-05:00

http://www.hypnosisunleashed.com/about-hypnosis-unleashed/

Another interesting discussion

2010-10-26T15:35:00.001-04:00

I don't think there is too much new being said on this thread, but it does warm the heart to know that this issue is alive and well. For some it has been discussed too much. I like to see folks waking up to it and responding. I did not add my two cents. Most of what was said I agree with. I'll reproduce my remarks under the link.

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59782&highlight=resort+fees

There is not much left to be said, and I respect that folks are perhaps getting tired of kicking the dead horse. Perhaps it is becoming more like the $20 trick threads.
I agree with most everyone, actually.
I admire the purist stance that started this thread. I am not so principled.
I agree with those who would do the math and let that decide and it seems their position is strengthened by those who suggest the fees be easy to see so the math is easier on the customer, and comps and deals spelled out so the math is possible.
I liked very much Ken's summary of all the sorts of folks who make all sorts of choices, although I think he overestimates how many travelers are informed. I personally talk to folks everyday who have not heard of resort fees, so more exposure for infrequent and travelers not so savy as regulars on this board seems valuable.
My guess is that as wearisome as it might be for regulars on the board to have encountered this discussion again, there are some newbies who are looking at it for the first time.
Are there any topics that do not repeat themselves?
And, no rudeness intended, but if the topic is wearisome and clearly indicated in the title, can't overburdened readers just skip the thread? I skip many threads here everyday.

I understand that Harrah's does not offer good gambling in many areas and that offsets their attraction as a no resort fee hotel. However, in live poker Harrah's casinos offer some of the best gambling available because they comp free rooms for live poker play, something no other casino in the world does, as well as the hourly regular comp (Imperial Palace is $2 an hour)
On the strip they offer a one-of-a-kind in Vegas frugal low spread limit game at O'Shea's with very small blinds and good drink service.

Harrah's does rake a bit more, but if we consider table selection part of our live poker play strategy, we want to be away from the Vegas regulars who do the rake math (and so can do the pot odds math, and figure the tells, and know how their buds at the table play) and we want to be playing with tourists who say, "Hey, it's only money."
One extra loose player will more than pay the added rake.
So I would argue that for live poker players, Harrah's properties offer player advantage. They do for me.

I'd also like to plow some frugal middle ground between the boycotting purists and those who just pay the fees.
Take a look at the Orleans and the Gold Coast and the Palms. They have very low resort fees when those fees are charged at all.
Consider this math: the entire resort fee at the Gold Coast ($3) is almost equal to just the added tax generated by the resort fee at Red Rock.
Gold Coast offers good gambling too. And while it is slightly "off strip," the free shuttle or quick cab ride or city bus makes it very accessible.

Most people who do the math and offset one cab ride home each night (after the shuttles quit at midnight) against the difference in room rates, can find the GC or Orleans ($5 resort fee) a very frugal alternative.
And if you are riding the SDX (new name for ACE) or Deuce during the day, a ride back to the Orleans on the bus is just another free bus ride added to your 24 hour pass.
(The Flamingo bus is going to be more limited as of Nov 7 in early morning hours, running only once every hour)

These hotels offer a compromise to the pure resort fee stance. However, when the newly imposed fees at hotels are now coming out at $20 a night, those small fees seem like a bargain.
And as Ken says, a note to those places indicating that you chose them or are considering them because they kept their fees low is more effective than any board discussion. That may help keep them from raising fees.

Okay I found a more obnoxious fee than resort fees

2010-10-15T06:40:00.002-04:00

http://onyoursi.de/2010/10/a-fee-to-pay-whatll-they-think-of-next/

Unfortunately, this will affect my use of the Southwest credit card for free flights.

Resort Fees waived for SEMA

2010-10-12T23:03:00.001-04:00

http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2010/21/more-than-dozen-vegas-hotels-waive-resort-fee

Tropicana

2010-10-10T18:26:00.001-04:00

Tropicana adds a resort fee to their booking, but recently a board friend reported that she booked a room and the resort fee was dropped even without her asking. Good news. It might be good to ask when booking or getting comped if the fee can be dropped.

It must fit with this policy

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/aug/19/tropicana-says-renovations-show-signs-paying/

Aria to get resort fee $22.40

2010-10-06T10:07:00.002-04:00

http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=3573

Name your own Price and then pay more

2010-09-29T22:21:00.001-04:00

http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/resort-fee-folly/

This is not a new article, but I like the way it spells out this problem.
(See some update on this issue in the next post.)

To be careful, if you name your own price, deduct $20 that you expect to pay in resort fees. That will cover most places. If you happen to catch a hotel that does not have one, well, you got even a better deal than you bargained for.

Booking blind (almost)

2010-09-29T11:02:00.001-04:00

Both Hotwire and Priceline have a mechanism for booking based on price rather than the name of the hotel.
As far as I can tell Priceline does not say anything about resort fees. That will be a surprise.
Hotwire however estimates the resort fee and tells us upfront that it will be charged by the hotel before we book it.
Also hotwire lists amenities so we can see if there is a casino offered by the hotel.
So searching for a deal and finding one downtown with a $6 estimated resort fee means that we have found the Goldspike. No other hotel downtown charges a resort fee.
And while the estimated resort fee might not be total clue as to the hotel in question, it should narrow the choices. I doubt a hotel with a $20 fee would be noted as having a $10 estimated fee. Looking at amenities might also be a clue. Some have wifi and some do not and some might have unique amenities like a paper.

New suggestion for protest

2010-09-27T13:17:00.000-04:00

Cheapolasvegas is now on the anti resort fee band wagon.

http://www.cheapovegas.com/resort_fees.php

They offer to send loads of free faxes to you while you are in Vegas if you get that service free at your resort fee hotel. Cool protest.

My rant against the "just do the math" argument

2010-09-13T20:19:00.000-04:00

I liked this. Mostly I stay calm, but somehow. I don't know. I guess that I wonder how long I'm going to have to say the same thing until someone takes notice.
Anyway, thought I'd cut and paste it here:

From this thread if you want the whole conversation:
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=441680#post441680
No one here in this thread has been arguing much that doing the math isn't wise. Sometimes purists do make that argument. They made it to M and M backed off the resort fee.
No one can predict what angry protest might accomplish.
But I don't hear a lot of it lately.
I am pragmatic as you suggest and know many others who are as well.
However, to suggest this is easy math because all the sites offer this information is just wrong. Many sites don't offer it. Many casinos offer very confusing information even when you call them. I was caught by the Gold Spike raising the resort fee in between booking and arrival. I would not have known had I been average tourist. I caught it because I am alert to all the changes around resort fees. Had I been an average tourist, I would not have known until check in.
It would be nice if the math were just 1+1 = 2, but then there would be no need for resort fees at all. The point of the fine print trick and confuse strategy is to lie about what it costs to rent the room.
Many, many people book on discount broker sites. Those don't give this information in their figures.
Many people read the news when it lists the rates of places. These don't report resort fees.
This year in two month reports from a paid gambling site there were articles ranking casino rates that put El Cortez fifth when they should have been first.

Even the list we have the link to here does not give all the information, nor of the four I have on my site is any single list accurate and complete.
The math is fuzzy math because no one really knows the numbers, and if the rooms are comped the issue becomes even more unclear.

I asked about the resort fee. The clerk asked me how I was booked. I explained I had not booked yet, I was just trying to understand the resort fee. Well, it really depended on how I booked she explained. Well, I said, just tell me two ways to book in which a fella might avoid the resort fee. No, she said, she could not do that.
When I got caught in the Gold Spike business, I was booked and the fee was raised. I asked if I was grandfathered in and she said if I had booked using"Hotmail" that I was. Well I had booked using another discounter (sorry the name escapes me, maybe hotel.com) so I figured I wasn't grandfathered. I changed bookings only to find out here on the board that the other discounter was owned by hotmail and so another fellow in my situation was grandfathered in and did not have to pay the resort fee.
Had either of us booked directly with Gold Spike, then we would be charged the fee.
well... that is what the girl said, but some here had booked that was and were not.
When Circus Circus came up on the Vegas.com site as having a resort fee, I called. The clerk said that there was no fee. I said that Vegas.com said there was. She said no. I wrote Vegas.com and they said they had information that there was and so it was like that in their chart. I called back to Circus Circus and no there was no fee she said. Well, I asked if a fee was instated would I be grandfathered in if I booked that day. No, the clerk said, I'd have to pay it. And would they tell me? No, she said.
In thread after thread I hear this 1+1=2 argument. Sometimes it indicates that folks who are angry at this fine print shuffle deception are somehow too stupid to do simple math and if they would just wise up, why the whole issue would not be worth thinking about.
Tax means that it is never 1+1, but at the best 1+ 1 and maybe another 12 or 13 percent of the second 1, we don't know for sure.
I called Venetian, for example, researching this issue.
Listen, the math is too fuzzy to pin down to do. So it needs to be done on the phone when we book, and again when we get written confirmation and again when we confirm well ahead of time so there are still deals out there, and again just before we go, and even then there may very well be a new resort fee or a raised fee to contend with when we arrive.

Or maybe there won't be any fee when we expect one.
My last trip the math said that a $5 resort fee at Orleans and a $3 f ee at the Gold Coast still made free and cheap sense in room bargains.
So I booked.
But No fee was charged. None at either place in spite of the math telling me in all their publication that there would be a fee. In spite of me being reminded when I confirmed at the Orleans.
I did not want to make a stink about not being charged a fee, but I did ask at the Gold Coast just to try and understand how I might do the same thing again. Well, she told me that the person who took my reservation made a mistake.
Hmmm.
I made the reservation on line at B Connected. No person took it.
So in that case 1+1 was equal to..... well.... 1. New math.

For those of you angry enough about this to just book somewhere else, I admire your idealism, i think that you ought to be admired. Perhaps you will change the tide.
I have to say that the Spike raising the resort fee put a bad taste in my mouth and that was all part of the utility of my decision to cancel and not book there. I just did not like being charged more than what I had contracted for, math or no math.
And I don't like fine print bullies. Charge me the price! Figure out what it is and let me know upfront what the math is, clearly and not hidden in some fine print. the new Rumor Suites does that right on the booking sheet just like Amazon does with shipping charges, before I commit.
And quit tricking the newbies! I want to be able to say to people that Vegas is a fine place to visit where they'll be taken care of and just to watch the gambling as that is mostly rigged against them. I'm tired of telling them first about the resort fees and then about how to check the room for bed bugs. By the time I'm done, a lot of them decide just to stay home. Most of them don't want a vacation that annoys them and makes them work through a series of mathematical puzzles delivered at odd times in fine print. They can stay home and figure out their bills and tax strategies if they want to do that and save the airfare.
I heard a show on NPR this week that said that in Massachusettes some grocery stores were fined heavily because they did not follow the law and put a clear price on every bit of canned goods sold. Seems those folks in Massachusettes figure that they ought to be able to see how much the beans cost before they stand in the check out line.
All I want from Vegas hotels is that same respect they give the folks who buy beans in Massachusttes. Transparency up front. No tricks.
In the meantime I find I gotta call the casino repeatedly just to find out what the price is

CUSTOMER RESPONSE

2010-08-21T08:26:00.010-04:00

I have had many conversations about resort fees over recent months. The casinos seem to fall into groups of those that have large fees, those that hold small fees, those that have none, those that reveal the fees, those that do not.
I thought it might be interesting to group the customers according to how they think and handle the resort fee issue in discussion.

PURISTS - - For some people the resort fee and all the bait and switch and fine print tactics that come with it are so insulting, demeaning and fundamentally immoral that they refuse to do business with resort fee hotels. I have read of folks who were regulars at the Palms and who now refuse to book there because the Palms installed a one dollar resort fee. These folks have taken a moral stand and will contribute by boycott to ending resort fees if that is possible just as all idealists contribute to positive change.

PROTESTORS - Some people decide to simply keep asking for the fees to be waived. They ask upfront, they ask at check in, they ask again at check out, they ask their host, they dispute their credit card bills, they make steady and continued argument hoping that at some point they either have the fees waived, earn some kind of compensatory benefit, or at least make the casino earn the fee in added work to collect it. Even when not booking a property, these folks may complain to a resort fee hotel or write a letter of praise to any hotel that avoids the practice. Like the Purist, these folks work to wear down the resort fee machine.

PRAMATISTS- Some people want to balance the resort fee with all other aspects of booking, including all amenities and values and preferences so as to arrive at the best possible booking that yields the most economic utility. They often do not like resort fees, but see them more as something that further complicates their booking decisions with deceptive and confusing details, rather than a moral wrong. They do the mathematics as best they can, make deals where possible, and weigh all factors in their decision. They take on the complicated and time consuming process of identifying resort fees and computing the actual costs of booking a hotel and then compare that to the actual benefits. They repeatedly call and confirm the details of their bookings so as to check when fees are raised.

PATRONIZERS- This person tries to take on the pragmatist disguise, but has a hidden agenda of using the confusion and anger around the resort fee (and the possibility that some might get tricked by bait and switch or fine print) to minimize the issue and demean all Purists, all Protesters, and often anyone who takes the issue seriously. Sometimes their purpose is simply to establish themselves as superior to folks who just can't seem to "do the math." They ignore the disingenuousness and unpredictability of the practice and put the entire onus on the consumer with the motto, "Let the buyer beware, " by which they really mean to say, "Why isn't everyone as smart as I am?"
In some instances, I have found out that people assuming this position work for the casinos and don't really have a common interest with folks who are customers and book rooms. If their job depends on casino profits, they naturally want this resort fee profit maker to succeed. Also, people who hear customer complaints day in and day out can get a bit cynical about the folks who give the casino a hard time.

OPPORTUNISTS - These folks actually gain by the implementation of the resort fee. They have always chosen to use the workout room and get free wifi and have been paying rather high fees for those amenities. With resort fee pricing, their cost has been reduced; with a mandatory charge for all, their use of these services is subsidized by those who don't use them. Included here as well is the high roller who gets the fee waived on comped rooms, but still gets all the amenities it buys, and so has gained free wifi or other new amenity with the resort fee practice.

GREENHORNS - This is the person most likely to be fooled by the resort fee, to miss it in the fine print, to not understand that discounters do not generally reveal resort fees, to get caught and not know about it until check in, or check out, or when the credit card bill arrives. They are new to booking hotels and in their trip planning have not come across the practice or the issues rasied by the fees. Often in the end they feel foolish or feel angry about having been tricked.
I have many resort fee related exchanges with people on discussion boards or in emails or in commentary after news articles. The casino hotels are fairly well grouped as to whether they have the fees or not, reveal them or not, have raised them or not. I thought it might be interesting to group the sort of folks I've heard from and talked with around this issue.

JADED DEFEATISTS - Some gambling research indicates that some people do not feel comfortable winning and will generally gamble until they lose. It suggests there are people who find perverse pleasure in being victims. At any rate, these customers have been beaten up so many times that losing is just what life is. "What can you do?" they say, "Resort fees are just here to stay. Might as well get used to them." Purists and protesters make the defeatist uncomfortable.

APATHETICS- These folks just do not pay any attention to the fees. Perhaps they are too busy to care or do not value a small amount of money added to a large hotel bill. Some are dysfunctional and have difficulty just making a reservation let alone attending to complicated details. Perhaps the rooms are comped and the customer says, "Well, I can't complain about an added $15 since the room is free, so it is still a bargain." Perhaps the motto of this customer is, "Hey, it's only money" and no attention is paid to the amount even when the credit card bill arrives.

Harrah's discusses resort fees once again.

2010-08-20T21:16:00.001-04:00

http://www.travelweekly.com/article_ektid219022.aspx

Note that the advantage to the casino in not having to pay the discounter a commission and getting ranked high on any list of casino rates is stated in this interview.

Tropicana is putting the fees upfront??

2010-08-19T20:25:00.004-04:00

http://lasvegasresortfees.com/exclusion-marketed-as-benefit/

However, a call to reservations indicated that this must be limited marketing indeed. The clerk knew nothing about it and told me all of the bookings she made added the ten dollar fee to the published price of rooms. Their webpage listed the rates with no mention whatsoever of resort fees.

Here is my letter to them:

I read that in some of your recent marketing you have bundled the resort fee charge upfront in the advertised price. I applaud this transparency and hope it catches on.
http://lasvegasresortfees.com/exclusion-marketed-as-benefit/
However, when I went to search out what that meant to share it with my community of Vegas loving friends, I found a website that kept the existence of the resort fee hidden even from the fine print, and when I called the reservations clerk said she had no knowledge of any marketing where the fee was no added on the advertised price.
This is deceptive, adding 25% to the cost of the nights I was considering booking.
I am hoping future marketing is simple and transparent. It would be fine to have one hotel in your location of the strip that played straight with us.

And here is what I was thinking:

t has totally confused the booking process because we can't tell what the real price of the room is until checkout. Tropicana does have an opportunity as a new entity to take the Harrah's position, drop the fees, and advertise that they are the only casino in their neighborhood doing that. However, there just must be enough new visitors who are not savy that this will be added to the bill to make the hidden fee profitable.

What confuses me is that these are not usual tourist hotels where folks may visit once in a lifetime. Each casino hotel already has built in trickery to take our money. They used to understand that making sure people did not feel like fools would give them return business and they'd get their taste in the slots.

They give away free alcohol. We can easily drink in a day the $10 resort fee in alcohol. Why not make us feel good about our booking. Folks who book when this fee is completely hidden or even when it is in fine print come away feeling like they have been fooled. Casinos used to want to send us away as losers, but with some self respect left. Jackie Gaughn knew that and built a casino empire on that value. he was always striving to keep them happy and keep them coming back. How does it feel I wonder to leave more than the gambling budget at the Tropicana and then come home to pay attention to the bills and find the hotel cost more than we booked? And especially how does it feel for those who are not savy travelers paying attention to details. If I were Vegas, I'd want the less than savy traveler to come and come again, feeling comfortable that I was taking good care to house, feed, water, entertain so whatever they lost in the slot was lost without regret. I would not want them saying to their friends, "Well, I'm never going to do that again. First I lost on the gambling and then I lost on the fine print. What a bunch of crooks!"

*************************************************************************************

And here is one of those standard answers:

Mr. Hill,

I apologize for any confusion this article may have caused. The resort fee is included in the price of this particular promotion only. However, we have added the daily WiFi as an inclusion of the resort fee, saving about $13.00 per day for our guests.

Nicole Marshall

Guest Experience Manager

Tropicana Las Vegas

3801 Las Vegas Boulevard South | Las Vegas, NV | 89109

o: 702.739.3640 | e: nmarshall@troplv.com

Harrah's and Resort Fees

2010-08-13T12:41:00.002-04:00

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/aug/12/harrahs-sees-resort-fee-anger/

Are you posting a trip report or deal?

2010-08-13T06:32:00.000-04:00

WHEN POSTING TRIP REPORTS AND DEALS
$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$
It used to be that when we shared a good hotel rate in a deal post or in our trip report, we merely had to mention the basic rate we paid. We skipped the 12% tax because in any comparison shopping, it applied evenly so it could simply be understood.
Now it is important to share the total cost of the room, room rate with tax added to the resort fee with tax if that is applied.

Also, it is very helpful if the casino waived your resort fee to inlcude why that happened. Was it waived when you booked using a postcard mailed offer? Was it because you had a host comped room, or was it decided after your host reviewed you play and comped along with food and beverage and show tickets?

Recently I have read numerous posts on how low hotel rates have dropped. Many of them ignore the resort fee. If Hooter's drops their hotel fee to $20, but keeps an $8.40 resort fee, it cannot be ignored if the central point of a post is to make real sense.

Savy Vegas travelers know enough to double check. Newbies wandering onto a board and planning a first time trip may not.

BOOKING WITH DISCOUNTER

2010-08-13T06:27:00.000-04:00

$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$
Does the discounter feel responsible to tell you the resort fee is coming?

I know that Vegas.com takes that responsibility, posts that list of casinos that do and don't have fees, as well as what you get for the fee, and notes clearly on your booking pages that this fee will be assessed.
Recently I have seen Resort Fees on the Hotels.com site, but only after you choose the hotel that has been advertised as charging a particular price. Hotels.com adds it under terms and conditions. For my nights at Circus Circus they list a $4.95 rate.

These discounters need to get their software updated so that Resort Fees are figured in their ranked list of cost by price. The 12% tax never needed to be included because it was standard and so a wash in comparison. Resort Fees need to be included UPFRONT.

I looked at i4Vegas for my April nights. I found plenty of detail about adding money to get a little nicer room, but the Resort Fees were published way down the list. Close to the fine print section.

Compare the marketing using such a practice of pushing the resort fee down to the bottom. The room rate is in big numbers. Even the rule that you must be 21 is noted in an early place in the list of booking details.
Resort Fees come last.
Booking.com says nothing about resort fees. They do say they want us to pay the lowest rate, but they just ignore resort fees where I have looked.

Bottom line seems to me to be: CAREFULLY CHECK THE FINE PRINT!!!
Where are you experiencing frustration with these hidden fees? Let me know. I'm interested.

New Mathematics of booking

2010-08-13T06:26:00.000-04:00

1. Take the nightly hotel rate and add 12% (13% at the Stratosphere and downtown casinos).
2. Take the nightly resort fee, add 12% or 13% if tax is accessed on the resort fee, then add that to number 1.
Now you have the true cost of the room.
However, it will still be hard to compare. Perhaps in the past you were just determining which hotel has a pool or not. Now the pool, inroom internet, free water in the room, two for one tickets, and half a dozen other benefits may be included as amenities in the resort fee. I suggest you simply list the value of the amenities that have value to you along with the total price you pay and then decide. If you don't care about water in the room, skip that one. If you like a pool and internet, list the status of those amenities at each hotel. Don't forget to list them for hotels that offer them free.
If you like, you can assign each a subjective dollar value and then add that subjective value to the price of the hotels where those amenities are not offered. True you won't actually pay the dollars represented in cash, but you will pay in lost amenities by choosing a cheaper place.

Well, just a suggestion.

BOOKED BEFORE FEE BEGAN? STILL CHARGED?

2010-08-13T06:25:00.000-04:00

$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$

The "grandfathered" practice.
You book your rooms in advance. The casino imposes a fee after you book. What places will honor the original booking and remove the fee:

THOSE WHO WILL GRANDFATHER

Monte Carlo added a resort fee between the time I booked and the time I checked in and I was grandfathered. NYNY and Mirage also grandfathered people with reservations before the fee was instituted. Viva Las Vegas
Station Casinos will grandfather as reported by a worker at Aliante Station.

THOSE WHO WILL NOT GRANDFATHER

Circus Circus, according to clerk when I phoned.

Looking for more information on this.

BEWARE WHEN BOOKING

2010-08-13T06:24:00.000-04:00

LET THE BUYER BEWARE $$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$

Since you can no longer depend on honest and upfront disclosure of what a room will cost you,
Since we all agree, even the casino apologists, that this is a "let the buyer beware" Vegas,

These measures might help:

1. Ask for a printed email with all taxes and fees to be sent to you when you book and ask them to indicate in writing what the resort fee is, especially if it is zero.

2. When you call to confirm your booking, check all these figures against what the casino expects to charge you and keep track of the date, time, and person to whom you talked.

3. Call and confirm again closer to the time. If a resort fee has been imposed, you still have time to look elsewhere for lodging.

4. When you check in, bring your copy of the original agreement, and your glasses. Check the figures again and call a manager if you feel charged more than you agreed to at booking.

5. Check out in person and recheck all the same figures to see that they agree. Don't just leave your key, comped or otherwise. Most people assessed this fee "by accident" or "trickery" are most commonly getting it waived by a manager. If you get home, you will probably have to go through the trouble of filling out dispute papers on you credit card bill.

If at any point in the process you feel like you were not given clear information and that you have been trapped, see the suggestions on how to complain:

http://vegasresortfees.blogspot.com/2009/12/how-to-complain-what-methods-are-there.html

And don't forget to let me know here what happened.

examples: January posts
Two posters booked at NYNY. One, booking off a post card was never told. Another was told twice and messages were left in the room indicating that with play these fees might be lifted.

Comped room; will the fee be waived?

2010-08-13T06:23:00.000-04:00

$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$
SOMETIMES YOU DO. SOMETIMES YOU DON'T. SOMETIMES THEY WILL TRY UNLESS YOU ASK FOR IT TO BE WAIVED.

Here are some collected notes from boards, but I doubt that they are useful for establishing any kind of pattern. Waived resort fees seems a whim or a formula that no one yet knows. One thing is clear. Ask at the beginning and ask often and ask again at checkout. Jean Scott's experience is of total confusion:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/index.cfm/2009/4/25/It-Does-Pay-to-Check

THE LIST
(Based on reports from other gamblers in December)

Hotel 32 at the MonteCarlo adds $18 to comped rooms.
More than one comped room has reported being charged the resort fee at Monte Carlo.
The Venetian lets you opt out of the $15 resort fee, but you then get no amenities (wireless.)
Station casinos : Wireless is included. However, it has not always been a smooth process. Jean Scott found that the Resort Fee was like an itch that would not go away at Green Valley Ranch. Comments added to her posts also reported that Palace Station said the fee was waived, but it showed up on the credit card report. Jean wrote it up twice http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/index.cfm/2009/4/25/It-Does-Pay-to-Check and http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/index.cfm/2009/4/29/Casino-Extra-Charges-Revisited Here is a very informative post on station casinos. Reported more currently (jan 2010) in the following link is that numerous times the fee was waived completely and automatically for this poster, even on post card comp offers. http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g45964-i292-k3300323-l23564923-Resort_Fees-Laughlin_Nevada.html#23564923 This poster reports regular stays at Sunset Station using host Burma. Aliante also waives the fee as reported by an employee.
Fiesta Henderson charges comped players, ask to see a manager and leave an extra 15 minutes for checkout.
Luxor does not charge a fee on comped rooms
Red Rock waived the fee (huge $28) for a mailed comped offer.
NYNY, TI, and Rio waived the fee for comped rooms
Palazzo drops the fees for comped rooms.

Discussion of the issue: Again the answer is more complex than one general pattern for every casino, and it is unclear whether all casino patrons are treated equally when comped a room.

Some comped players report that they never are assessed the fee, or if they are, they simply draw attention to it and it is removed.
Other long time customers are shocked to see it added to their bills after they have thought to be taking advantage of a free room offer.
One poster reports that he was told the resort fee could be taken off his earned points in his account.

Others are charged resort fees and can argue their way out of them by calling a manager and taking the time to be firm.
At any rate the often expressed idea that all comped rooms waive resort fees is naive and simplistic. Check the fine print twice. Call and ask.
1. "MGM/Mirage has started to do it with some you can book directly online via the Player's Club."
2. "I confirmed it yesterday via NYNY. 2 comped nites, $25 free play AND a $10 per day resort fee."
this from
http://blonde4ever.yuku.com/topic/12968
3. "NYNY resort fee is 10.07/night. Even comped rooms have that fee. The only way to get them waived is by "play." this from http://www.vegasmessageboard.com
4. This from LVA board.
5. A poster on the Trip Advisor Laughlin board reports that the Venetian has a way to opt out of the fees for comped players. I assume that means you don't get amenities for free as you do in the Station Casinos.
One poster who was going to Station casinos and getting comped rooms, said that the fees were waived but the benefits were not, including free internet. This poster liked the fees as it meant other people were funding his free internet.

Sometimes it is just one huge confusion as was narrated in a comment on http://www.vegastripping.com/board/topic.php?topic=750

The bottom line is that these new resort fees mean a good bit of work during the booking process and afterwards.

ALL COMPS ARE NOT THE SAME

It might be good here to mention that comps are very different.
Some people never pay for rooms, food, beverage, girls, limos.
Others just get the free room comped.
Others just get a come-on offer in postcard form from the casino.
Sorting out who gets comped resort fees where and with how much play is another tough question, especially for those who have not established hosts or who do not have bankrolls that let them play the high roller.
Current reports indicate that folks receiving the come-on postcards are finding the Resort Fee is listed in the fine print. So FREE doesn't mean FREE anymore.

BUY A BIGGER ROOM AND SAVE THE FEE:

Luxor reportedly will waive the $13.95 resort fee if you paid $25 for a much improved room?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SHOULD YOU INCREASE YOUR PLAY TO COVER THE RESORT FEE?

NO!

Some posters have suggested that the easy answer to Resort Fees is just to play more. If anyone believes this, then they fall in the classic casino trap of playing for comps.
How much more?
Well, no one knows any more than they know how much more to play for a free room next trip. Don't let a promise of small comp benefits lure you into losing large bits of bankroll. The math is never in your favor.
Put at risk only the money you intended to put at risk, and let the comps fall where they will.
If the casino does not value your intended play, you might ask why or you might simply change venues.
Smart gamblers do that all the time.

How not to Complain in an E-mail

2010-08-10T09:51:00.003-04:00

Good tips here on email postures to avoid when making complaints.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37785773/ns/travel-travel_tips/

Another newspaper report on Resort Fees

2010-08-07T20:23:00.002-04:00

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/08/resort-fees-catch-guests-surprise/

Another interesting thread on getting them waived

2010-08-05T17:07:00.003-04:00

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=432430#post432430

and another on dispute

http://www.elliott.org/blog/yes-you-can-fight-a-resort-fee-and-win/

No resort Fees advertised

2010-08-02T01:42:00.002-04:00

Now here is the way to advertise NO RESORT FEES. Note the lack of fine print.
http://lasvegasblog.harrahs.com/las-vegas-entertainment/where-holly-goes-so-goes-this-las-vegas-blog/

Open letter to a Las Vegas Hotel Discounts newsletter

2010-07-30T14:27:00.004-04:00

It is fine to publish deals, but what good are they when resort fees are not even mentioned. The prices can't be counted on. One must memorize a list of resort fees or call to find them. At least there should be a disclaimer at the top or the announcement that the dollar amounts listed are artificially deflated because resort fees from $10-20 reduce the value of the sale.

Not to do this makes media an accomplice in the bait and switch fine print trick of the fees and encourages more hotels to use them to circumvent being accurately advertised.

THEIR ANSWER:

We always appreciate constructive criticism, so thanks for the feedback. I do not currently have any changes planned for how we list our deals. However, if I can find a way to easily track hotels like Aria and Paris that do not charge resort fees, I may try and add the words "No Resort Fees" when listing a deal at a no resort fee hotel. It's probably the least that hotels beating the no resort fee drum deserve.

Another link discussion

2010-07-26T07:36:00.000-04:00

Interesting to note here is that keeping the conversation going resulted in offers of the fee being waived.

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57298&highlight=resort+fee

New Rumor has a fee

2010-07-22T10:55:00.002-04:00

The new Rumor Suites across from Hard Rock have a $9.95 resort fee which covers pool, valet parking and wifi in the room. There is no tax added to this fee.

New site with resort fee information looks promising

2010-07-06T07:50:00.001-04:00

Nicely developed site will give resort fee information and more. Did you know that the Hilton will pay you $10 not to use the daily room service? Resort fee in reverse. Give it a look

http://casino-comps.info/?p=44&cpage=1#comment-223

GoldSpike is now almost $8

2010-06-29T10:49:00.003-04:00

June 2010

I confirmed the Gold Spike fee as %6.99 plus tax so $7.90
The desk person said that if booked at Expedia they pick up the resort fee.

For the fee amenities have been added that were not there before:
- parking is expanded and limited to hotel guests with passes issued upon registration
- free wifi is included in the resort fee.

Four Queens told me they do not have a resort fee or plans for one.
There is a $3 parking fee that can be avoided simply by not parking there. That is not a resort fee that cannot be avoided.
LVA noted the error and will correct it in future lists.

Some interesting resort fee chatter here:

http://www.vegaschatter.com/tag/resort%20fees

2010-06-16T05:49:00.001-04:00

You can find the full thread here:

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=420819#post420819

My Open response to the Free LVA thread

2010-06-11T08:39:00.003-04:00

I'd like to respond to many of positions reflected on this post; however, I'd like to say upfront that the most productive place to complain is not on Vegas discussion boards, where for the most part we are preaching to the choir, but in emails and phone calls directed at casinos.
If everyone who rants at the injustice took that rant to the source, the practice might change. If everyone who decides to switch their business to Harrah's or to downtown because of their no resort fee policy, wrote to Harrah's or downtown and said thanks, that might insure Harrah's maintains it as their advertisement gimmick, and if everyone who likes places like Palms or Coast casinos or Gold Spike, (casinos who have at least maintained very low resort fees over a good bit of time) wrote and told them they enjoyed the lower resort fee prices, those places too might hold the line at raising resort fee expenses.
There is nothing wrong with venting on these threads, but it is probably not the place to effectively change the practice.

IN RESPONSE TO THE "DO THE MATH" ARGUMENT:

1. It is fine to be proud of your disciplined planning skills, but you need to lose the disdain for those of us who are too new or too disorganized or too busy or too unskilled and who too easily get caught in the fine print of resort fees or mortgages.
As consumers we need to try to help one another. Buyer beware rhetoric is for the shifty supplier.

2. Many people go to Vegas because they trust that the details of their trip will be taken care of by the casino hotels. They do not expect to be tricked. The tradition has been that the casino/hotels offer customer service and are quick to cater to any customer misjudgment.
What casinos get in return are customers who don't "do the math" when they play the games. Most customers want the casino to do the room math up front in the advertised price and not over complicate the simple act of booking a room.

3. As logical as it sounds, in general even knowledgeable people often do not do the math. I have not been on the pay side of this board in a few months, but in January and February there were articles in the the LVA newsletter announcing the low rates of hotels in which resort fees were ignored. This meant for example, that of the five hotels reported as having record low hotel rates, El Cortez was reported as the fifth most desirable when, had the authors "done the math," EC would have been the lowest priced casino that month.
Since these reported rates were low to begin with, the resort fee actually added almost 50% to the cost of the rooms.
Last week I read another well respected Vegas newsletter.the author advertised Tuscany as his pick of the month and quoted a low nightly price as evidence of the good deal that might be found there. I wrote and asked if he had considered the $10 resort fee. He answered that he had not, so that the reported $20 a night quote he had touted was really $30 a night, or mathematically 50% higher. People who trust these sources to do some math for them are likely to be surprised even by the most reputable.

4. Also, those who think that the math is a simple formula ignore the real mathematical complexity resort fees add to booking a room. For example, the casino/hotel in charging a resort fee has found a way around giving discount brokers a full room to rent (and discount drastically when they have a overload sale) without losing the discount business.
Very few discounter "do the math" when they have us search by low-high price and since we pay them one fee and later the hotel collects the resort fee, it is a bait and switch deal.
This greatly affects those of us who are very frugal and plan to take advantage of August or December seasonal/recession reduced rates.
For example, Priceline may have to dump some discount rooms at record low prices, but the resort fee won't be discounted. So the hotel/casino will get their taste. This makes the reality of renting for the most frugal visitor negatively affected by resort fees because the discounter only really provides a portion of the room and can only discount that portion.

5. Further complicating the math are that some casinos charge tax on the resort fees and some don't. So the $3 resort fee at Gold Coast costs you $3, maybe. But the $25 resort fee at Red Rock costs you $27.94 which means that in tax alone at Red Rock you get socked for a resort fee equal to the entire Red Rock fee (ahh,, minus 6 cents)
Or consider this recent report. A woman booked a buy one get one night free deal where it said resort fees were waived. When she called to confirm, the fees were only waived on the free night but not on the buy one night. The math can get very complicated.

6. Folks also give their brains more credit for objective evaluation than actually happens. Prices for all sorts of goods are often set with 99 or 98 cents because as much as the math says there is little difference between $1.99 and $2.00, our brains say otherwise.
So the Gold Spike coupon in ACG for $7.77 feels very different to our brains than the actual price of $9.75 or the advertised $1 rooms at Saraha this past month work better as shock sale price than the actual price of $7.

7. A good example of the way minds work was on a recent thread I read that was considering whether Hooter's was a good deal at $20 a night. It seemed that this issue was right on the edge for many of the posters, and they spent their time arguing the value of the property vesus the sale price.
On the thread where it occurred were folks who on a resort fee thread had talked about "doing the math' but guess what? For twenty post responses no one did any resort fee math. The entire basis of their argument was mathematically unsound, but they considered and argued and people read it and tried to make a decision on where they fit in the argument. You know there were newbie lurkers in that audience trying to decide whether to give Hooters a try or not who were not thinking about resort fees. They expected regular board posters must be savy to the correct costs. The fine print trick of these resort fees echoes out like ripples in a lake after a tossed rock.

8. Interesting to me as well is that the "do your math" folks, after what is generally a self righteous rant against how stupid the rest of us are, also generally admit that they don't like the fees and think they should be included in the upfront charge.
I played poker with a worker from Hooter's at Excalibur last trip, and told her to pass on the frustration of many about resort fees to her bosses, and she told me that even at Harrah's I was paying the fees because they were included in the room rate.
Duh!!
That is all any of the ranting and protesting folks are asking, that all fees be upfront and included in advertisement and bills and statements of what is owed so that it does not require a lawyer' s research skills to find out the cost of booking a room.
No one is complaining about the stated price of the rooms.

9. I do the math each time I go. I have yet to see comparable rooms come off cheaper with added resort fees if the resort fees are over $5. The rates seem to match comparable hotels, locations, etc. The fees always seem an add on expense.
So far, every time I have done the math on my nights and my rooms the resort fee makes the rooms I am looking at more expensive. Just as it did for the Tuscany. On all the nights I picked to look at, Bill's was the same price and in the same location with a good balance of amenities, location offsetting the inconvenience of walking to the Flamingo pool. The casinos have to be counting on all the complication of the math to work in their advantage when they send out these come on e-mails with room rates that look just amazing until we add in the resort fee.

10. Only one mathematical argument makes sense to me. It is the one made by folks who generally pay for free room wifi and the fitness room in upscale hotels and save money because that cost is spread out among all the folks who don't use those facilities.

IN RESPONSE TO THE "WE DO THIS AS CUSTOMER SERVICE" ARGUMENT

I have been reading report after report and thread after thread on this issue and can't find the numbers of people clambering for resort fees that are claimed by hotels. In fact, the vast majority of posters and reported comments in the media call out this practice as a fine print trick.
Exceptions include:

Folks who work for the casino industry and are worried about having a job and want the casino to make all they can.
Folks who get a benefit from the practice at the expense of the majority
Folks who just like to stir the waters and always take the opposite view
Folks who have great distain for the general consumer and like to point out how whinny and stupid we are.

It is a very common trick for any industry to try to pretend that they are doing something that might annoy their customers with language like:
"for your convenience"
of
"to better serve you"
Resort fee rhetoric is no exception.

RESPONSE TO THE COMPARISON WITH LUGGAGE FEES

While I fully understand that the feeling consumers get when they are charged luggage, early check in, blanket or bathroom fees by airlines are similar to those felt by those charged resort fee, these fees are not the same.
A person can use the airlines, carry no luggage, use no blanket, check in on time, and not use the bathroom and avoid these fees while still getting a ride at the stated price.
A person cannot do that with resort fees.

If the airlines had fees equivalent to these, they would charge them whether bags were checked or blankets used or not to everyone flying.
If casino hotels modeled their resort fees after airline fees and all amenities were charged on a usage basis, most complaints would evaporate.

RESPONSE TO THE RANT AGAINST HARRAH'S

Harrah's has certainly earned complaints over the years. They do have poor gambling choices, a complicated booking procedure, and ways to manipulate comps that infuriate folks.
They do threaten to become a monopoly.
I understand how some folks are just determined to be mad at them no matter what.

On the other hand, for some of us Harrah's are earning new respect.
The resort fee stance was very customer friendly. Of course, their rates are only better for the folks who do the math beyond the advertisement, but in deciding no resort fees they have put more trust in the intelligence of the consumer than their competitors.
Instead of saying, "Hey, in our advertisement we can trick these dumb bas***ds," they have said, "Hey, in our advertisement all we have to add is 'no resort fees'" to remind folks to pay more attention to what they are charged, and then we will come out as the cheapest alternative as well as keep customer respect.
Harrah's also takes more rake in their live poker game than many places. However, they are now giving free rooms to poker players. And guess what? The simple math here is again more complicated than it looks. Do you suppose the regular Vegas local players, those who play with each other and practice everyday so they can feed on the tourist fish are attracted to high raked games? Most don't even need comped rooms. A table of tourists will offset the mathematical disadvantage of that extra raked dollar.
So Harrah's has 6/5 BJ. I note that this is an optional trick. I don't play it. It has nothing to do with where I decide to stay.

RESPONSE TO "THEY WILL ALL START DOING IT" ARGUMENT.

You may be right.
We consumers will determine that by where we shop and what we say.
There are ways to protest.
I have heard of many people getting these fees dropped even when they do the last minute protest of putting their credit card bill in dispute and waiting for the casino to make the argument that they have completely communicated the resort fee to their customers.
It is more trouble than it is worth, especially since the casino knows the fine print resort fee is a trick.
It almost seems like they say to their employees, "Look, get it if you can, and if you can't, just forget it."

Many people writing letters have also gotten the fees waived at least one time or perhaps a promise of a future upgrade.

Now suppose the next time you took a free room from a host you met him/her upfront and talked about resort fees and asked they be waived up front. And if you got a no or a we will wait and see, you said,
"Okay, I understand I getting a good deal here on the fitness center, the wifi, the pool, the parking, the bottled water, so I'll use all those things. I just won't gamble here. I'll spend my time working out and writing email and sipping water. I'll use up my previously collected points for free food. But I'll go next door to XXX to fill the slots with my bills. Then my gambling this trip will set me up for comped rooms next trip over there where I won't have to have this resort fee argument."
And then do that.
And then go home and dispute the resort fee charge on your credit card.

Hey, this game is all a gamble too. If you leave Vegas with $100 extra from the slots, you feel pretty good, right? Well, fill out the dispute charge papers and see if you win.

MGM and Wynn have joined the resort fee bandwagon, so I am less optimistic than I was. However, here are my last two resort fee experiences:
Orleans gave me two free rooms and all over everything was the resort fee printed and then I was reminded when I booked and when I confirmed.
I had two free nights offer with $10 food so the $5 a night fee was..... well......do the math.
As one of their amenities, they listed free wifi at Seatles Coffee so each morning when I went to use that amenity I did not feel obligated to buy anything since I had paid for that service in the resort fee. No one asked me, but I was prepared with that answer.
Generally, I would not think of going to a coffee place and using their wifi without buying something. I had no problem having coffee and a doughnut at the downtown Krispy Kreme to use their free wifi.
But, hey, two can play at this small print nitpick game, right?
Then when I checked out, they had not charged me.Go figure.
Gold Coast. I did the math before I left and the best rates I could get for three of my nights was at the Gold Coast even with the $3 resort fee. Besides I do like to use the fitness room there. It is wonderful really. Where can you walk the treadmill and if you get bored with the baseball just look out at the bikinis around the pool?
Anyway, when I checked out, they had not charged me either. I asked the clerk, and she told me someone had made a mistake when they booked my rooms, but she made no attempt to correct that mistake.
I had booked at the B Connected site using my player's card. So I wonder if that method of booking bypasses the resort fee.

RESPONSE THE SUGGESTION THERE BE A LAW AGAINST RESORT FEE

Unfortunately, the simple answers are rarely practical.
I don't think we can count on government to bail us out of this tricky spot. Regulation would be great, but they do it so seldom and as we see in mortgages and oil drilling, they do it so poorly.

I think the practical answers are in the power of consumers. If consumers act in an informed way and take charge, if they call for changes in practices, then the marketplace itself can force the practice to stop.
At M casino that happened early on. they received many, many complaints from high rolling customers, and their resort fee was dropped.
Harrah's had resort fees a long while ago, but their read on them in Vegas was that such fees were a negative marketing tool. So they are trying this approach.
In this industry more than perhaps any other, customer desires are valued.

I would not wait for government to bail out the little guy on this one.
Government is much more likely to roll with the big boys and support the right of the casinos to offer up their bills in any way they wish as long as somewhere in fine print, they do note the charges.
I also think the amenity lists are to preclude any legal issues.
These fees are not just added on. They "buy" certain wonderful things like free water and free parking.

And perhaps it seems futile, but how much does it cost to send off an email to every casino you gamble in that has this policy? How different is that from posting on these long threads?
I guarantee that the opposition to dropping resort fees will not be as strong as those the poster faced trying to stop health care reform. There are not too many folks who want this practice who don't make money on casino hotel profit. And you are not talking to government where issues get very complex. This is very simple. You are the customer and you are unhappy. Let them know.

Okay. I am certain you have had enough of me. I try to keep up on this issue here:

http://vegasresortfees.blogspot.com/

tipping me off on new developments is greatly appreciated.

The best, regularly updated list of resort fee/no resort fee hotels is at Vegas.com a discount broker with a conscience who has decided to give people a better shot at doing the math by providing them with a list of the fees. Taxes are not included in their computations. You can add 12% to get them, but you have to know first which places charge the tax on the fee. Hey, no one said the math is simple. At least not on my post.

http://vegasresortfees.blogspot.com/

Hey, if you can manage time away from the fitness centers and off the in-room computer, win some money.

Add Wynn

2010-06-10T17:53:00.003-04:00

Wynn now has a resort fee of $20 effective on new reservations at Wynn or Encore.
Sad.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun/11/wynn-resorts-tacks-mandatory-20-resort-fee/

http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=3322

Circus Circus $5 fee has free wifi

2010-06-05T13:00:00.002-04:00

http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/2010/6/4/135716/0007/vegas-travel/Nice_Decor_Free_WiFi_This_Room_May_Surprise_You

Here is one fellow who fought it and won.

2010-05-24T16:28:00.002-04:00

http://www.elliott.org/blog/yes-you-can-fight-a-resort-fee-and-win/

Great article detailing the problem

2010-05-14T13:48:00.002-04:00

http://www.elliott.org/blog/allegiant-air-will-now-demonstrate-how-not-to-disclose-a-resort-fee/

May 2010 article in the Sun

2010-05-08T05:51:00.002-04:00

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/08/resort-fees-catch-guests-surprise/

Hard Rock doubles fees

2010-04-03T01:32:00.002-04:00

Yep, a whopping $15 a night for what if free most places.

A Blog with comments responding to MGM and Mandalay Bay new fees

2010-03-24T22:04:00.003-04:00

http://dmckee.lvablog.com/?p=2700&cpage=1#comment-3017

Mandalay Bay joins the Tricksters in May

2010-03-20T06:58:00.003-04:00

Reservations made after May 1, 2010 are subject to a resort fee of $15 plus 12% hotel tax per night.

Station Casinos Getting the Message

2010-03-17T21:04:00.002-04:00

Latest ad for rates at the Stations drops the resort fee gimmick and just gives the price upfront.

http://www.cprpt.com/StationCasino/10000/cphostredirect.asp?sid=10797&vid=0&lid=1032307&rt=0&o=1&mk=953411&mv=1414&eid=deweyfhill@hotmail.com&SN=CP&oid=10000&customcol01=&slvor=10797.1032307.0.1.0.953411

When Did This All Happen??

2009-12-30T10:08:00.004-05:00

$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$
That is what one board poster exclaimed. "I was just there two months ago and none of this was going on!"

Well, it may not have been going on two months ago in the casino you visited, but it has been around a good bit longer than that in Vegas and in other cities around the world. Here is a post about Hawaii:

http://www.elliott.org/blog/time-to-say-aloha-to-the-resort-fee-capital-of-the-world/

The "when" of the resort fee farce can be any day of any week for any casino. That is why Viva Las Vegas took on the task of updating the list here (click), why some of the more savy discounters are getting the message that this is going to continue to be a frustrating hidden fee and they better get it communicated to their customers, and why I am trying to chase this thing into the ground on a daily basis and see if I can keep up with the rapid changes.

You can help by sending me information, anecdotes, things you have read.

For many, many customers the important "when" is the time in the room booking process when they learn that each of their nights might cost them another $25 and that all their comparison shopping did not mean much because, quite simply, they were quoted one price and will pay another.
Perhaps it is as they check in.
For some it won't be until check out.
And we will have to imagine that for many it won't be noticed until they pay the Visa a month after they are home.

Perhaps as we communicate and update for each other, we can stop this virus from infecting the pleasure of a Vegas trip, but even here we are always working behind the "when" of the decision.

Unlike casino implosions, the imposition of resort fees will not be televised.

The major purpose of this practice is to get the hotel to look cheaper than the competition looks when someone tries to compare prices. To compare accurately the consumer needs to do it twice, once with the hotel rate and again with the resort fee.
Of course, the entire business of the casino is to trick the customer into paying more than they intended, but generally casinos have kept the tricks confined to the slots, extra zeros on roulette, and dealers reminding us to bet the hard ways. They have not tried to trick us in the booking process itself.
But they are hurting for cash. So, like many financially strapped folks, mugging sounded like a good solution.
Hey, if the bankers can do the fine print scam on house mortgages, why not do it on rented casino rooms?

Ask for total prices when you book.
Confirm those total prices when you confirm your room before heading out to Vegas.
Post what information you find so we can spread it around to other Vegas travelers.

And ask often. Read this resort fee experience from at Green Valley Ranch Jean Scott
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/index.cfm/2009/4/25/It-Does-Pay-to-Check

The better "when" is the day we see these fees go away or evolve into something optional.
Or the day when some Vegas casino begins to advertise that they have no resort fees as a way to promote their rooms the way Southwest promotes their airline travel with no baggage fees.
This too can be any day for any casino.
This has already happened at Circus Circus in Reno. And on some discounter sites I am beginning to see a prominent note that exclaims "No Resort Fees" for some of the advertised hotels.

Harrah's rejects resort fees.

2009-12-30T08:30:00.003-05:00

Circus Circus in Reno started advertising against these insidious fees. Now Harrah's has taken a stand in Vegas:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jan/05/harrahs-uses-resort-fees-take-swing-competitors/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a blogpost reaction:

http://lasvegasblog.harrahs.com/las-vegas-hotels/more-bang-for-your-bucks-no-resort-fees/

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Negative responses say, "They will just roll the fees into their rates"
Uh...........Yep, I guess they will........this is what we've all been asking that they do.
Here is my response:

No one is suggesting the casino hotels shouldn't charge for the rooms and amenities, only that the price is upfront and not in the fine print. Easy comparison, upfront pricing and no surprises.

Then if the LVA newsletter or other news agency reports how low Vegas hotel rates have dropped, their information will not be skewed by a failure to take in resort fees in the mathematics.

Then if there is a thread, say, the low rates at Hooters, folks won't be debating whether it is a good deal or not for a Dozen posts before it is clear to everyone that the cost of the room is 42% higher due to fine print resort fees and all the time spent discussing the value of the "Sale" was based on the wrong figure.

Then the folks who want to exercise or have internet can see that rolled into the price of some hotels, and decide on a hotel that offers it, or consider the optional charge for the service upfront at others and buy it or not.

Then when shopping for hotel rates on any number of discount broker sites, the advertised price will be, well, the real price, the low to high ranked price charts on these discount sites will offer some bit of credibility.
Also, the discounter won't have to have a long list of casinos with and without Resort Fees so the consumer can spend more time doing unnecessary mathematical adjustments, trying to determine which Resort Fee is taxed and which is not. Three discounters now report different resort fees for Circus Circus while their own desk clerks say there is none. Who knows what is true?

Then when newbies or the inexperienced or the uninformed book a hotel room, they won't get surprised on check in or check out by fine print trickery.

Then when a room is booked, it is booked; folks won't have to consider whether that casino "grandfather's" in the emergence of new Resort Fees or a raise in fees or whether they just automatically charge a resort fee when it emerges to everyone, regardless of when they booked.

Then a class action lawsuit will not be necessary to get back the Resort Fee that was undisclosed. If there is one price, then it will be the price. No confusion. No unnecessary litigation.

Then when a room is comped, it will be free. No one will have to have their play evaluated by a host to see if the remaining 40% of the room is also comped at that particular place for their particular play. Free post card offers will actually offer free rooms. Seems simple.

Then when it is time to check out, we can actually use the fast check out rather than take our preprinted agreement on charges to the counter and compare it to the actual charges and wait fifteen minutes for a "suit" to waive the resort fee.

So go ahead Vegas casinos. Roll them into the prices. They were a deceptive trick posted in the fine print to catch the unsuspecting. Put the charges for the hotel upfront. I don't see anything bad about about knowing upfront what we have agreed to pay and having that honored even if we are drunk, distracted, forgetful, or in a hurry at check out. Keep the poker playing strategies for the poker tables. We don't need them when booking.

It sure will save a great deal of booking time, comparison shopping, sharing of deals on forums, and checking in and out.

Responses to the news:

http://www.elliott.org/blog/no-resort-fee-its-big-news-in-las-vegas-baby/

Circus Circus Resort Fee Increase not there as of Jan 4

2009-12-29T01:00:00.001-05:00

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So much of this resort fee reporting is confusing. As of January 4, there is no increase at Circus Circus over the dollar phone fee. Operators booking rooms seem not to know anything that might be coming.
Meanwhile the discounters are reporting that Circus Circus will charge $3.95 or $4.95.

I wrote Vegas.com to see why they show a Resort Fee when Circus Circus says there is none, and here is their reply:
Hello,

Thank your for contacting us. We checked with management at Circus Circus and confirmed that they will be charging a resort fee of $3.95 beginning Dec. 20.

Kind regards,
Vegas.com

In December I wanted to check to see if the fee in Vegas was up and working as predicted on the 20th just to test Vegas.com on accurate information. I also wanted to test a theory from a poster on the LVA board that claimed anyone booking before the fee was in place for a time after the fee was imposed would be "grandfathered" in and would pay no fee. Wherever this is true, at least when we booked, we could be assured that raises in Resort Fees would not be added later.

I called Circus Circus in December and so the resort fee had not been implemented, but

"That doesn't mean it won't be next week"
said my operator whose name I won't give since I don't want her to be bothered.

Then I asked her about this "grandfather" theory.
She said if I booked yesterday and the fee was in place in January (her guess as to when it might hit the computer) that I would not be grandfathered in when I arrived in April, but I would have to pay the fee.

I asked three times in three different ways and she said definitely, "No!" to the grandfather theory and added that she wished it would work like that because the way it works now she gets plenty of people yelling at her. She did say I could do what the guy in the last post did, call a manager, because he has the discretion to waive it. But that is no guarantee, is it?

Futhermore, she said that when Circus Circus first imposed the dollar fee for unlimited calls, no one was grandfathered.

So there it is. I do have to trust Vegas.com's connection that they really know about the coming imposition of the fee, but Vegas.com has no reason to make that fee up or do any of the outher discount room brokers. It hurts their business.

And I don't care just about this one casino.
It is the practice. It seems to be tricking everyone into thinking that it is not a hidden fee likely to rise up and bite them at check in or check out.
The operator said she thought that resort fees don't work with any grandfathered protection in other casinos also, but she was wrong about that:

"Monte Carlo added a resort fee between the time I booked and the time I checked in and I was grandfathered. NYNY and Mirage also grandfathered people with reservations before the fee was instituted." from Viva Las Vegas on his list at http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50749&highlight=resort+fees
I'd like to hear the specifics of folks who have been surprised with the resort fee and then been automatically grandfathered by the check in clerk as if that were the standard procedure.
Who has had that experience?
Where have you been required to call a manager to get the fee waived? How long did that take?
And who has been charged the fee regardless of complaining that it violated the original booking.

Meanwhile
Circus-Circus in Reno is advertising with the slogan NO RESORT FEES.
You go, Reno!!!!!!!!! Hope this is the next trend.
Check out their advertisement:

http://www.circusreno.com/hotel/noresortfees.aspx

Perhaps Vegas casinos are listening.

Priceline and other opague bookings really hide the fee

2009-12-24T00:01:00.000-05:00

So at Priceline you may or may not get the best price as once again the Hotel Resort Fee is not included in the original formula for the booking. Check out this article

http://www.elliott.org/blog/vegas-hotel-opaque-site-resort-fee-t-r-o-u-b-l-e/

LAUGHLIN RESORT FEES

2009-12-23T00:40:00.000-05:00

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So far reports from Laughlin indicate that only Acquarius is trying the Resort Fee trick. That means that you can often book two rooms in Laughlin for the same price as the Resort fee at one room in Vegas.
A car makes Laughlin an easy destination. Going by bus for a few days costs about $110 round trip from Terribles(no resort fees) or the airport.

details are here: http://vegasbirthdaybash.blogspot.com/2008/08/snippet-2008-why-laughlin-and-how.html

Atlantic City comparisons

2009-12-23T00:30:00.004-05:00

Atlantic City has no actual resort fees.
However, that does not mean that when you get an e-mail come-on for $35 a night, you will pay $35 a night to stay there.
Let's do the numbers:

Standard Tax: Add 14%

Additional Occupancy tax: Add $5 - $10 in most places per night . Comped rooms are more: $6 - $13. Only $1 at the Irish Pub.

When I called around on January 11, only Harrah's properties quoted $10. Comped players pay $13.

Self Parking: Generally, a one time $5 fee if you are a guest. Beyond that you can come and go for free if you have a pass that you are a hotel guest. Charged the $5 each new day, but if you leave the car and just walk the boardwalk, you pay only the one time fee of $5.
At Trump Plaza you pay $5 and get a one time complimentary in and out by being a hotel guest. After that you pay unless you just leave your car sit and walk.
The Irish Pub has no parking at all available, but a nearby parking garage charges $7 per day.

Parking fees change during busy times. It could be as much as $20 to park during busy times. Caesars has been known to charge that. If you have a card, then it is only $5.
Valet parking prices are extra.

So when booking, ask all these questions again. Especially ask what the parking fee is likely to be when you arrive and how to minimize it. It seems that this is the fee most like the resort fees, able to be manipulated by the casino hotel depending on what they think the market will bear. Also, parking is higher at many places if you don't sign up for a player's card and show it, and much less or nothing if you play enough on your card to gain status and a new level or color or card name.

I am still working on getting more detail; however, in most cases, I hear from well bankrolled players who may or may not have the same experience as low rollers/live poker players who pay cash for rooms.
Here is an interesting thread on the topic:
http://forum.americancasinoguide.com/general-discussion-forum/2425-more-resort-fees.html

My good friend Bigfus writes:

All the hotels in AC have a "tax" and "fee" charge. This ranges from $6 to $13 a night. There's no way around it. I know that all the Harrah's properties are between $11-$13 and I think Resorts/Hilton, Borgata and the Trump Properties are $6-$9 a night. Supposedly part of it is based upon the "Cost" of the room. (I'm so used to paying these fees that I don't usually note them.) Obviously the whole $ amount is not a "tax" or they'd all be the same. The Borgata will let you pay the tax/fee with your comp points if you'd like. I haven't stayed at the Tropicana in years so I don't know what their fee is.

Harrah's fees are probably the highest in AC but they give out the most comp rooms too.

Parking is usually $5 a night (even when you are a hotel guest) but some of the props on the boardwalk raise and lower this amount based upon the time of year. Saturdays in the summer at Caesar's can be $20 a day to park -- ridiculous.

You get free parking if you have a premium card from the casino. At certain times of the year parking is free at the various casinos. They change it all the time.

If you park at a casino and pay for it, you can get a receipt that is good for you to give to the next casino you park in within 24 hours for free.

We "The ECLVA" try to park at the Claridge (which is a Harrah's prop) because you show your Diamond card on the way in, and they don't run it (which means you are not tripped). The Claridge is in the middle of the boardwalk.

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This poker site lists a few casinos that give fee parking with a card. I don't know how current the information is.
http://www.acpokerguide.com/new_pokerrooms.htm

I'll keep collecting information. In the meantime if you are going to Atlantic City ask all the questions you can at the front desk. It surely is a good bit easier to settle these issues for a particular booking at a particular time than try some generalized approach based on whatever I gather here.

For the most frugal traveler it is possible to get $27 (plus tax) rooms at the Irish Pub, drop off the luggage there, and park at a casino nearby for just $5 for the length of the stay as long as the car remains in the parking garage. Each time the car is taken out and used, it is another $5 fee.

What can coupon providers do to help?

2009-12-22T01:00:00.000-05:00

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They can make certain that resort fees are listed on every coupon advertising a hotel rate in their book.
They can make sure that when they report on hotel rates, they include the Resort Fees in what they write and in the conclusions they draw.

The funniest Resort Fee has to be the Gold Spike. This casino has the worst reputation and new owners were determined to change it so they renovated the entire casino. Well, they did not renovate the rooms yet. That is still in the works.
But they have a $2 Resort Fee and nothing to put in the amenities section because all you get for the Resort Fee is an renovated room in a place that is the farthest thing from a resort that you can imagine.
They just charge; they have absolutely nothing to list as a benefit.
The Gold Spike offers a $7.77 promotional coupon for a single weekday night in the 2010 American Casino Guide. Nothing on the coupon says anything about the $2 resort fee which adds 26% to that night's stay. They kept that information back from the American Casino Guide and you just know it is going to be something that will make people annoyed.
This kind of promotion works to unfairly reduce the credibility of well respected, frugal traveling tools like the American Casino Guide. It is a small amount, but it sets folks to wonder.
Editor Steve Bourie has made it clear that he thinks these fees are a "gimmick" to get more money out of the customer, and that it is sad they have felt they needed to add these fees to the room charges.
Still promotional coupons to really work need to be redeemed smoothly so that the users are amazed they can get such a deal, and then are then drawn to return to buy that coupon book and also to return to the promoted casino. The Gold Spike had a great idea with this $7.77 room coupon. They should just charge that advertised amount.
It is a good bit of work to keep up with redeeming coupons. If folks take the time to do the couponing work and then detect a catch, all the joy of the savings is replaced by a feeling of being caught again, even in this small way, by the disingenuous casinos. And it is not like the feeling of going on a coupon to a casino and losing fifty bucks after staying to play beyond the one coupon bet or having the free buffet.
Gamblers joke all the time about how much a $5 coupon or a free buffet may have "cost" them, but they take the blame for their decision to stay and play, usually making a joke of it. That fifty lost in gaming is not begrudged the casino as much as that $2 they lost as a hidden in fine print resort fee.

SOME FEES ARE NOT RESORT FEES

2009-12-20T18:08:00.003-05:00

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So far Harrah's has not decided to charge Resort Fees.

Flamingo for April 2010 charged me a processing fee of $10 for my phone reservation. I am there five nights, so it is not much for the use of the pool and for my first stay on the strip, so I paid it. I have since found out that this is only charged if I use the phone to book and it is not a resort fee.
When I booked another week in April at Imperial Palace, I could not manage it on the computer which kept saying I already had a reservation.
So I called to book. The girl told me that the computer reads bookings per month so that if we try to book two Harrah's properties in the same month, we will get rejected by the computer. So I called.
They booked me over the phone and when I asked, "So is this going to cost me the $10 processing fee..because the computer can't separate dates in the same month?"
"No," she said, "Since it was clearly a problem with the computer, we waive that fee."
If you call and simply indicate you are unable to book on line, perhaps they will waive the fee?
At any rate the processing fee, which may look like a Resort Fee, is just there to give an incentive to use the Harrah's online booking rather than bother them with phone calls.
Resort Fees are charged for every night of your stay; these fees are not.
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Most hotels also charge anywhere from $15 - $30 per person per night over 2 if you admit you have more than two people staying in the room. The fees for four people (two couples or a family of four) declared at check in would exceed the actual room cost at over half of Vegas properties on weekdays. from Viva Las Vegas

HOW TO COMPLAIN**********

2009-12-19T17:47:00.002-05:00

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HOW TO COMPLAIN

What methods are there of protest?
Complain at the front desk. (While this is the weakest form of protest, this seems to still be working for people who find this added to their comped rooms or were not told when they booked.)
Complain in writing to someone who must answer.
Complain on public discussion boards and encourage others to complain as well.
Whenever you cancel a reservation, say it was because of the resort fee and say that in writing.
Put the entire hotel bill into dispute with your credit card company and let them wait for their money.
If you are trying to get it dropped, tell the casino you will dispute the entire bill with your credit card. It is more bother for them to go through that process than to waive the fee.

If you feel that the casino did not do all they could to inform you of this fee in enough time for you to change your reservation for a cheaper hotel, then this might be a good thing to say, and of course to put in writing:
"Fine, I'll pay this tricky resort fee that I feel has trapped me, but I'll not wager a dime in this casino. I'll go next door or down the street. While I'm here, I'll enjoy the amenities that I have paid for by paying this fee. I'll go on the internet in my room or to the fitness center. I'll enjoy the pool, and use up my points on free food, but I won't gamble here this trip. That will more than save me the resort fee and begin to establish me in some other casino as a good customer and one who expects fair play. If you want me to treat you as a resort rather than a casino, I can do that."

Mirage is apparently discussing the practice. Here is a request for information in response to a recent letter of complaint:

My email address is dsteinbach@mirage.com. We are monitoring our guest comments about the resort fee and I appreciate you sharing your feedback. I will ensure they get to the right areas.

And here is an interesting tactic. A poster on this discussion board had paid the fee and arrived back home before questioning it. The poster copied and mailed the discussion thread to the hotel asking for a rebate and got it.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/intercontinental-hotels-priority-club-inter-continental-ambassador/1026670-free-nights-do-i-have-pay-resort-fee.html

DISCUSSION BOARDS: RESORT FEE THREADS

2009-12-15T03:00:00.002-05:00

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you may skip my long introduction and just scroll to the lists of threads from an assortment of Vegas boards that cover this issue at he end of this post

Vegas discussion boards are a fine place to collect information about any topic related to Vegas; however, along with helpful, knowledgeable posters will be scattered folks who may only know a bit about something, may work for casinos and have a different agenda than a tourist, may like to take an opposite position just for the fun of it, or may have some other axe to grind. Reading many threads on a assortment of boards is very helpful in getting a rounded idea of what is happening.
On this issue only very current posts are useful as the details of the fees change often. If you call and find a certain casino now has a higher rate than you see on posted lists, let the list poster know. Let me know too. I'll pass it on.

It may be hard to imagine folks who would actually defend the hotels' decision to trick us in this way, but they will be on every thread. Many think that no one should ever complain about how a casino manages things and that the basic rule is "buyer beware"regardless of how insidious and ridiculous the trick. Or they claim this is a lot of smoke over nothing.
The points made by folks who don't think resort fees are any problem seem to fall in these categories:

1. "Who cares about a little $8 resort fee. It's only money."
2. "Don't worry, the casino will take care of you if you just ask them at the desk and get a full statement of charges."
3. "You can get easily get rid of these charges if you gamble more."

If you think about these arguments for a moment you will see that these are classic casino positions. The casino always wants us to devalue the value of money, so they can collect it from us with the least possible resistance.
They always want to give the impression they are our friends and will take very good care of us, when in reality they are trying to relieve us of our money.
And casinos try all sorts of schemes to try to get us to play more. We are fine about most of them. This one is just a bit over the line.

A second group of casino defenders are folks who enjoy their position in an elite group of savy travelers. They seem to say over and over, " We smart people can add the resort fee to the advertised fee, do the math, and come up with our cost. If you can't do that, then you deserve to pay the extra fee." They simply ignore post after post of confused and irritated people who were tricked as well as some of the more subtle complications of the resort fee payment structure. Smart people should just do what they do.

And finally, there is a shrinking group of fatalists who simply say that there is nothing to do about these fees, when, of course, there is plenty to do and even a small bit done against this concept can reverse the trend as it did at M casino and in the minds of Harrah's marketers.

It is of absolutely no use to argue with these folks, but they do need to be challenged to rethink the issue, not because they will actually change their simplistic rhetoric, but because there are lukers on these boards, reading, but saying nothing.

Every gambling writer faces these issues in the writing and those who try to protect the players,
responsible writers (like Jean Scott, Mark Pilarski, Dan Paymar, John Grochowski, Linda Boyd, John Blowers and many others,) tell us that money always matters even if it is disguised as chips, devalued by alcohol, or hidden in fees.
They tell us that we should enjoy the friendliness of the casino, but to remember that casinos are like the con man and only friendly until they get all we got.
And finally they often warn us never to get trapped into playing for comps.

The first poster I ever read about who was surprised by the resort fee was a fellow who had arranged to take his wife to Red Rock for their 25th wedding anniversary. From what he wrote I took it that he really could not afford the trip, but he splurged.
So they get there and find that the deal they booked and thought was so good had not mentioned that they were going to pay $28 dollars a night extra to the casino as a resort fee.

This couple generally did not have money for hotels, and had not gone to many, so what do you think they did when they saw the interesting stuff on display in the room? You got it. I forgot what it cost him to "look" at the sex package toys offered due to the time sensitive trick the vender and casino like to play.
He put them back, but they ended up on his bill.
He laughed about it and at himself for not paying more attention to detail and for not taking seriously that this was Vegas where every time you turn around someone was trying to trick you out of your money.
Well, he had been tricked successfully.
Naturally, the added expense took the celebratory edge off the anniversary trip, but he did not whine. I guess he thought it was a "buyer beware" world too and the tone of the post was a humorous chuckle.

I didn't laugh with him.
I was very sad that he and his wife had wanted a special celebration and what they got was trickery and fine print.

I go to Vegas all the time on a frugal budget. I celebrated my 60th there for an entire frugal month and invited everyone I know to join me and offered to help book for them a frugal trip. No friend or family member paid over $25 a night for a room, and I had visitors every day of the month. I know it can be done.

Maybe some of the information here will help the next couple new to traveling to Vegas.
I know it is helpful to me. This is the most confusing bit of idiocy I have even encountered in all my years of booking frugal trips.

HERE ARE SOME DISCUSSIONS THAT MIGHT HELP:
Noted in November:
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50179

Noted in December:
There is plenty of resort fee discussion right after the list at Vegas message board. Viva Las Vegas is a fine source of current information on this issue.

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50749&highlight=resort+fees

This is by far the funniest thread of December.
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=17&threadid=300075

I post the Circus Circus information and get responses reflecting those three classic casino arguments. Posters also assume this is handled the same everywhere.
I toss back the facts over and over and it is just like beating my head against a brick wall.
I get so frustrated I take a wild guess that posters have casino stock or are employees.
And I'm right.
The major apologist for the casinos, the person who calls any casino guest "ignorant" if they don't get the full details of what they booked in writing sent to them at their homes, works for one of the largest Resort Fee hotels, the Aliante Station Casino.
So I've been fighting "hidden fees" and "hidden conflicts of interest" as well.
It is good sense to get a written agreement on cost before you check in, but casinos should not be trying so hard to trick and confuse their customers that we need to assemble piles of proof in order to simply rent a room.
No one should feel diminished because they are confused by this Resort Fee practice.
No one should take the blame for being fooled by fine print.
I'm confused, and I have been booking rooms for many years.

More discussions are here:
One as early as this spring:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97782

http://blonde4ever.yuku.com/topic/12968
and here
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=17&threadid=299964&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=
and here
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=299287&STARTPAGE=1&CFID=28914273&CFTOKEN=16527034
and here
http://www.vegastripping.com/board/topic.php?topic=750
and in this discussion Steve Bourie of the American Casino Guide speaks against these fees:
http://forum.americancasinoguide.com/general-discussion-forum/2354-resort-fees-vegas-hotels.html#post3852
and here.
This is a rather short discussion, but whenever we get a chance to read author Linda Boyd's perspectives, we should.
http://www.midwestgamingandtravel.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=382&sid=6e3f5c390f96da5994741a1c22f522d4

This discussion covers hotels other than Vegas and is interesting because one poster got the fee refunded after he had paid it and gone home. He sent in the complaining thread.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/intercontinental-hotels-priority-club-inter-continental-ambassador/1026670-free-nights-do-i-have-pay-resort-fee.html

Noted in January 2010

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=377751#post377751

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=17&threadid=300444

bibliography of Resort Fee articles

2009-12-15T02:00:00.001-05:00

These are more general articles on added fees:
http://hotels.about.com/od/hotelsecrets/a/avoid_charges.htm
http://www.dealbase.com/blog/?p=491

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/today-in-travel/watch-out-for-these-hotel-fees.html?id=3439912

An interesting collage of resort fee reactions:
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US354&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=hidden+resort+fees+vegas&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hidden+resort+fees&hnear=vegas&view=text&ei=-ZgpS5mSOIvDlAfVxZyiBw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CC8QtQMwAw
http://www.casinoguide.com/blogs/economy/vegas-resort-fees-and-their-effect-on-tourism/comment-page-1/

This post is dated because M discontinued their fee, but it is very well written and gets at the heard of issue with "something is horribly wrong"
http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=2729

Decent discussion but the referenced list is outdated:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Las-Vegas-Resort-Fees-Explained&id=2917656

Lawsuits:

http://www.lawcash.com/class-actions/marriott-international-lawsuit/2538

http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services-miscellaneous-business/4226112-1.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/170606-yipee-starwood-sued-hidden-misrepresented-poorly-disclosed-resort-fee.html

Collected Letters of Protest/Thanks

2009-12-14T01:00:00.001-05:00

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WRITTEN COMPLAINTS and THANK YOU LETTERS:

I am starting to slowly write some protest letters and letters of thanks.
If you write letter in protest of thanks, paste it in the comment section of this post or send it to me.
Each one models what to say.

1. In this letter, I am starting by seeing if another Vegas reporting regular will add this information to their fine and funny casino reviews.
http://www.cheapovegas.com/index.php

12/13/09
open e-mail to cheapo las vegas
casinoboy@cheapovegas.com:

I have always loved your site since way back in the days of the old Gold Spike and your celebration of the little guy gambler.
Now a new ugly thing raises its head. Resort Fees. Consider adding that information to your casino reviews. It does require some updating, but there seem to be some folks doing that. I tried to collect them here:

http://vegasbirthdaybash.blogspot.com/2009/12/all-i-know-about-insidious-resort-fees.html
note: this was before I turned this post into an entire blog

Even your old favorite Gold Spike has a "resort fee". No resort amenities, just a hidden fee. Not like the old days of syrofoam plated egg breakfasts.Also, I'll link you in the favorites on my site if you like. Mine is just a blog. I sell nothing and no one advertises there nor will that happen.Have a good one. Watch out for hidden fees.

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Letter to Gold Spike:

Open letter concerning Resort Fees‏

From:	dewey hill (deweyfhill@hotmail.com)
Sent:	Sun 12/13/09 8:43 AM
To:	generalmanager@goldspike.com

Well, I have been hearing such great reports on all the new renovations at your resort and had decided to give it a try when I come up in April.

Now I am rethinking my decision.

Why have you gone on the resort fee bandwagon?
It is not really the $2, but the idea that it is such a tricky tactic.
While the new renovation attracts, this resort fee repels.

And what exactly resort like do we get for the hidden $2? Pool? internet? laundry? business office use? gym?
I read that we get.........well...........nothing.
Guess I'll keep my El Cortez reservations. A bit more money perhaps, but I can count on few surprises except perhaps Jackie's unpredictable play at the poker table.

Sincerely
Dewey Hill

NOTE: NO ANSWER RECEIVED

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FEEDBACK FOR KAYAK SEARCH SITE

I used to recommend you all the time, but you are failing to figure in RESORT FEES when quoting in fine print the price with taxes and fees. It makes a huge difference and completely makes the list by price function of your site useless and deceiving.

From:	Gayle Evans, Kayak QA Engineer (225622.ee0@feedback.kayak.com)

Sent:	Fri 12/18/09 4:32 PM
To:	deweyfhill@hotmail.com

Hello, Thanks for taking the time to send us feedback about resort fees.

We are aware of this issue and are working with our providers

to get this information.  I hope you will still use Kayak.

We not only read and respond to every feedback,

but use this feedback to improve our products.

Thanks again,

**************************************************************************

TO   gcm@tuscanylv.com

 
January 7, 2010

I've spent a good bit of time telling my friends who are visiting Vegas that yours is a fine experience, easy enough on the bus without a car, large fine rooms, pleasant casino, rare access to laundry and a wonderful pool with internet.
However, it is hard to build much of an interest when the resort fees aim to trick them. It is a hard, perhaps illogical, kind of resistance, but folks like very simple deals that they can understand up front.
With now almost the entire Flamingo/Blvd location shouting NO RESORT FEES think about going back to where you once were with the cost of the rooms upfront, clean, and simple so comparison shopping was not a mathematical puzzle and no one need worry that booked rooms will have a new price when checking in.
I stayed with you just a few months ago. The $10 fee then was once per reservation, not every night. Even that did not set well in that emotional part of myself that wants to feel taken care of and have a place to relax away from the daily grind and all the games played there.

Countrywide these resort fees have punched the consumer in the gut just as they are recovering from a recession fueled by similar fine print trickery in the housing industry.
Folks who can still afford the trip to Vegas come to be taken good care of. Treat us in the booking just as you would in the restaurant where we don't pay an extra fee for amenities like table cloths and napkins.

I'd like to be able to recommend your place again without having to tell folks to be sure, in comparison shopping, to factor in Resort Fee charges for things free at other places.

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Thanks to Booking Advisor.com

I just discovered you site and like it very much.
I especially like the RESORT FEE INFORMATION INCLUDED IN THE TEXT DESCRIBING THE HOTELS.
I only wish it were possible to include that mathematics in the initial search and comparison so that accurate ranking by price could be accurate.
I work advising people of trips to Las Vegas.
Thanks,
Dewey

Treasure Island offer with waived fees and my letter in response

2009-12-14T00:14:00.001-05:00

http://blonde4ever.yuku.com/topic/13916/master/1/?page=1

Resort Fees and the Essential 1 offer‏

From:	dewey
Sent:	2/11/10
To:	ti-general@treasureisland.com; ti-casino-marketing@treasureisland.com

This is a tempting offer to see how we liked the TI with friends going and inviting us to join them with these nice rates.
We appreciate that resort fees would be waived too. A nice touch. It would have been considerate to save me a phone call and put that information in the offer. Makes a good bit of difference on what we actually pay, so booking is now much more of a hassle while we make the call to see really what it costs to stay with you.

Also we have heard too many stories of the fees popping up again through paperwork snafus, and we just don't feel comfortable having to ask again at check out if they pop up on the bill, and perhaps call for a manager or host before we can leave for the airport.

Why not just always put them in the bill in the first place? Then when we book, we get only one amount and there is no need to recheck anything?

Harrah's does that. One billing. They are close enough that we can stay there and still meet up with friends or have them come over and play where we stay. So we'll wait for the simplified billing approach to try a new place.

At least include "no resort fees" in the marketing offer language, so we don't have that first call to make, just to start the conversation with one another about whether we want to go or not.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Dewey, Elizabeth, Ron and Laura